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Topic: Digital Cinema Requirements

Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-24-2014 04:52 PM

Even with no competition I'll bet there are lots of people--especially young folks under 40--who consider this place laughably behind the times due to mono sound. The owner should really try to convert to 5.1 if at all possible.

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 09-24-2014 09:25 PM

At least put in three speakers LCR behind the screen.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 09-25-2014 03:10 AM

quote: Jeff Taylor
Bottom line, if anyone wants to see a current film it's this theater or nowhere, and no matter how nice you make it you're not going to materially increase the audience

You know, it's a little awkward to judge anything without knowing any of the details, but in my very personal opinion, that's still no reason to treat your customers to a sub-standard experience.

For an art house, well, yeah, maybe, but just maybe. But presenting first run movies in not even 3CH stereo really isn't going to cut it anymore. It didn't cut it anymore about 15 or 20 years back either. With the current tight release schedules, I would really rather wait for the rental than being treated to mono sound, especially if it's being downmixed.

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Ron Curran
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 504
From: Springwood NSW Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 09-25-2014 03:52 AM

One of the things that got me into this business was the amazing impact of CinemaScope and the thrill of stereophonic sound.
When we first started our little cinema it didn’t even have heating but I wanted to install 4 track mag. People in the business said I was crazy and tried to discourage me.
We scrounged used bits, built our own amps and speakers and made it happen.
Eventually, we had proper commercial gear and, over the yers, we had optical stereo, DTS and Dolby Digital, plus ES/EX. Now, of course, we have DCP and 7.1.
I can’t imagine going into a cinema with just mono sound. I suppose my generation still embraces the excitement.
Also, when a theatre screen shrinks down for the feature that’s a real let down for me; I don’t care how big their screen is.

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Manny Montes
Master Film Handler

Posts: 270
From: United States
Registered: Feb 2010

posted 09-25-2014 08:53 PM

quote: Marcel Birgelen
You know, it's a little awkward to judge anything without knowing any of the details, but in my very personal opinion, that's still no reason to treat your customers to a sub-standard experience.

For an art house, well, yeah, maybe, but just maybe. But presenting first run movies in not even 3CH stereo really isn't going to cut it anymore. It didn't cut it anymore about 15 or 20 years back either. With the current tight release schedules, I would really rather wait for the rental than being treated to mono sound, especially if it's being downmixed.

Not to beat a dead horse here, but even at an art house it's not acceptable. A small town community theater can survive big competition coming into town, in fact a few members here have theaters that have decent competition but still do well. But a theater with only mono sound won't do well, even an art house. There's always someone looking for a slice of the pie, I knew a 5screen art house that I used to work at, 2 auditoriums with digital, 3 with mono. Eventually AMC rolled into town, started stealing the art film bookings(competitive zone) and the customers started going there just because of the better sound (even our senior clinetele noticed). Obviously yes, it is easier to "spend others money" but hey, opinions are like A*holes I guess, everyone has one [Wink]

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-25-2014 09:26 PM

Mono sound is one of the things that's killing off business at the last theater in my town showing film, the Vaska. It has been the only discount/2nd run theater in town for the past several years. Management has done little if anything to upgrade the image or sound quality there the entire 20+ years I've lived in Lawton. Now they're in a panic over not having any d-cinema capability and so far behind in being able to do any proper conversion. Meanwhile there's several d-cinema equipped theaters operating in small towns in this region. It's interesting how they were able to convert (and even upgrade to 5.1 digital surround) while the Vaska could not.

Shrinking windows between theatrical release and release on DVD/Blu-ray has hurt 2nd run business. Lately digital downloads have been coming available as much as a month earlier than the DVD/Blu-ray release. I think Netflix and Redbox are hurting a lot of discount theaters on the back end.

The Vaska was able to get away with mono sound back in the 1990s when only a couple or so 1st run theaters had 5.1 digital sound here. Now the town has 20 first run screens all d-cinema and 5.1 digital sound equipped. Lots of people have 5.1 in their homes. A theater with mono sound is pretty backward now.

Carmike has a new 13 screen complex under construction on Lawton's west side. I'm not sure what they're going to do with the existing 8-screen theater. They may demolish it, but they might also switch it to a 2nd run theater. I think that would be the Vaska's death knell, if film prints are even still available for 2nd run theaters to book by the fall of 2015.

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Jarod Reddig
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 513
From: Hays, Ks
Registered: Jun 2011

posted 09-26-2014 02:54 AM

Great story Ron. You make the choices I would have. I also was hooked on multi-track surround audio the first time i heard it in a theater as I grew up in a town that had Mono for a long time.

I judge I theater more on its sound then its image quality, even though i consider myself a videophile. Theres many dozens of theaters ive attended once and never again due to poor audio. If I can tell the audio has potential but the levels were low or something ill give it one more chance. I always call ahead to each new theater my wife and I visit before seeing a moive to ask about there setups. Most of the time even the manager doesn't even what equipment they have.

The locals at this mono theater must be rich but not discerning. Or kids who don't know the difference.

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 09-26-2014 11:33 AM

quote: Jarod Reddig
I judge I theater more on its sound then its image quality, even though i consider myself a videophile. Theres many dozens of theaters ive attended once and never again due to poor audio. If I can tell the audio has potential but the levels were low or something ill give it one more chance.

I think I would agree, Cineplex in my area presents their movies at sound levels that are just way to loud. But even their presenations have been going significantly downhill with their scope projection on an open flat screen with no masking.

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 09-26-2014 11:49 AM

Obviously the theater should upgrade to 5.1 but it will never do that. As was said, this is a seasonal theater that runs during the summertime. 95% of the people who go there are vacationers with small kids. The kids are not there for the sound. When this theater ran film, they were running flat and scope on the same size screen. They filled the screen with both which means they were cutting off half the scope image. They ran this way since the theater was built. Now with digital, it fills the screen with flat. Scope runs with the correct ratio with black on top and bottom. The picture quality is much improved. You can argue all you want about the sound and I would agree if this theater was open all year and in a normal neighborhood, but it's not.

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 09-26-2014 12:02 PM

How many seats is the auditorium?

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 09-26-2014 12:18 PM

120,120,180,48

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Jarod Reddig
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 513
From: Hays, Ks
Registered: Jun 2011

posted 09-26-2014 07:40 PM

Guess just must be a speacial situation to be able to get first run films only being open for that short peried. But as said a short but busy season. There some unique situations. I understand what you mean tho many if not most only notice presentation issues if something goes obviously wrong. Still Mono in 2014:eek:? Its the guy calling the shots with budget who needs a reality check and who im directing this towards not you man. Im beating a dead horse sorry so enough said.

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Steve Moore
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 211
From: Leeds, West Yorks, UK
Registered: Apr 2008

posted 09-27-2014 07:11 AM

If it's coming out of a D-A converter, could you not just get away with a domestic high powered amp, with a discreet 6 channel input and look out for some reasonable sized domestic or "disco/DJ" speakers for the left right etc, but keep the existing centre for dialogue. The size of those auditoriums is not huge, and this could be a halfway house. Sure, you won't have the dynamic range, but at least it would give it a bit of width and depth.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 09-27-2014 07:27 AM

What this clown doesn't get is that he makes the entire industry look bad when he puts out such a substandard presentation (picture or sound). Believe it or not...EVERYONE takes a hit when public perception of going to the cinema is something less than it was.

It isn't about "spending other people's money" it is about taking other people's money. People paid to see and hear the movie. The movie was not mixed in mono (except maybe Woody Allen). It isn't for the public to be the scientist in the room to figure out what system the theatre has and how well it was installed.

While it is reasonable for a business to ascertain the right balance of features versus the business (would you want to force an esoteric format like Atmos which is not on every movie and costs several times the basic sound system?). However, DCinema has been defined as a 5.1 sound format, MINIMUM. That is, it is expected that all cinemas playing it are capable of handling 5.1 sound...not 7.1, not Atmos, not Auro or any other new fangled format.

In today's world, as others have pointed out, 5.1 is not a luxury format. It does not require high-tech or even special equipment. There are several cinema format manufactures of "standard" equipment and costs lower than that of previous film processors (i.e. CP750, JSD60 to name a couple but there are more)...or one can skip the cinema industry all together...ANY system capable of AES inputs...including a frakenstein of a D/A to even the previous sound processor...there are hundreds/thousands out there that are all but for the asking so you can have a common volume control.

There really is no excuse for a current cinema running in mono...if you don't do the business to afford that...please close. The world would be better off without you...home cinema does our industry better service than that. You make us all look (and sound) bad. You are not presenting the movie even remotely as intended.

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 09-27-2014 10:45 AM

It comes down to this person doing the absolutely minimum to stay in business to remain relevant. It's purely cynical. He's got the market cornered. He probably does not make any money and does not need to. I'm guessing he's wealthy and wants to be seen as the provider of the areas entertainment. I've seen this same scenario in various parts of the country.

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