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Author Topic: Barco DP2K-8Sx Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 05-27-2015 06:40 PM                        As usual, I'm here without the tech skills, You Guys have, but from a users view, the DP 2K-8S made my smallest screen live on, when 35mm disappeared totally from Denmark and I hadn't got the Money for another Kinoton 30SX. The tiny Barco is more than sufficient for those only 3,75 meter Width (both ws and cs - moveable top and buttom masking instead) - and working perfect since november 2013.... -and then: one drawback only - but qiute a serious one, though: The contrast is really poor. Not only when running the same film on both screens, but also in the everyday situation, I'm most disappointed with the end result. Only Photo buffs amongst audience mentions it, but one is one too many. Reliable it is, though, and as everywhere else: I've got, what I could afford, and what I payed for, I guess. Malling Bio, Screen 2 - 39 seats Barco DP2K-8S, Dolby Cat 745, DSS 220 and CP 750 Throw: 9 meters Width: 3,75 meters. What puzles me, is that the Barco has 1,850:1 contrast ratio, and the Kinoton in Screen 1 2,000:1 Should that difference be the problem ? And that, Gentlemen, was the resume from the far-out Danish countryside, ground user knowledge. Greetings !  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 05-28-2015 05:54 AM                     I think the 1:1850 doesn't hold true. I measured the NEC NC900 to be more like 1250:1. The Barco could have a bit more, but I think these 1850:1 is actually a fake in order to have the 0.69 S2k pass DCI compliance testing. ;-) You seem to have plenty of light left. Maybe Barco offers aperture plates for this machine as well. You could certainly sacrifice some brightness for some added contrast. Also you should balance light level/choose bulb type for this small screen size as carefully as possible. Don't go beyond 14fL. I know Alan Gouger once added his own aperture plate to a Barco 4k lens. It was quite effective, and it wasn't too complicated, bus that lens was built to take one. For the tiny 0.69 lenses, I doubt this is possible. But you should ask Barco about it. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-28-2015 06:38 AM                     Ushio now has the DXL-9BAF lamp (850-watts) for smaller screens so you start with less light. There are also ND filters to knock light down. Also, one can use a grey screen if the light is still too much and consider having a screen that has the falloff characteristic of a 1.3 gain screen to help hide the contrast issue. Make no mistake, all of the S2K projectors (regardless of brand) have low contrast (visibly so). Thus far, I've noticed it most on the NC900 but I have not made any extensive study on the subject. It is just accepted that with an S2K (which the DP2K-8S is) you will have lower contrast. It is intrinsic to the chip design (1/4 of a 4K chip). And yes, the 4K projectors have lower contrast than their 2K counterparts too! I believe Barco has LUT-SCC files (Spacial Color Correction) for the S2K (I know they do for the 4Ks but not for the normal 2Ks) that may help. In the end though...you do get what you pay for. The lesser projectors are lesser in many respects. And don't think that the upcoming blue-phosphorus lasers will help in any significant way with contrast ratio either. There may be a slight improvement but no night/day difference. Thus far, NEC is the first out with the NC1100L and check out its Contrast Ratio spec compared to the NC900...almost no change.  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-28-2015 08:15 AM                     You don't say what your screen brightness is, if over spec the contrast does look worse because the black level is not very black. The S projectors, and other small chip ones, have less contrast than the C or (especially) B 2K projectors. Possibly that's why Barco removed the physical dowser and use chip blanking - the residual light would be more noticeable when a real dowser opened. You don't say what Kinoton you have but I expect it is a .98" DMD model. Comparing that to the S will definitely show the reduced contrast of the smaller DMDs. If you have a 1.4" 2K DLP Kinoton the difference will be extreme. I would work at getting full white to 14 ft-L if it's too high. A smaller lamp or defocussing will reduce light level.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-28-2015 10:08 AM                     Kinoton never "made" a .98" version. All of theirs were based on the Barco "B" light engines. That said, he did either state or imply his other projector(s) is/are Kinoton 30SX. This makes it the "equivalent" to a DP2K-19B if it is an 30SX II.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 05-28-2015 01:39 PM                     What Dave say. What is your light level on screen? Steve, how does a 1.3 gain screen increase contrast ratio? Also, I guess contrast ratio is measured in perfect conditions (pitch black room, no reflections whatsoever) and pointing the meter towards the lens.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-28-2015 01:51 PM                     If you look at the distribution on a gain screen, it will give the illusion of increasing contrast because the further off axis, the lower the light level so the blacks (well greys in this case) will also follow that curve. As such, it will be less noticeable.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 05-28-2015 04:15 PM                     I am not sure I can agree on that. Yes, blacks will be blacker but whites will be less bright as well. Contrast is white/black, hence contrast does not change. Even subjectively I am not sure that this is seen as an increase in contrast. I hate high gain screens, I cannot remember noticing ANY benefit at all when looking at one.  |  IP: Logged Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 05-28-2015 04:24 PM                        Thanks, Gents - No doubt - One gets, what one's able to pay for... First thing, when back from a short vacation, will be to get hands on a meter. I'll be back ! Per  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-28-2015 05:06 PM                     Marco, As I said, it "appears" to have higher contrast. The notion of a grey screen giving higher contrast is silly too...they help in high ambient light if you have enough projector brightness to overcome the screen. As for appearance, compare a 1.3 gain to a 1.0 gain picture some day, the 1.3 gain almost always appears "snappier". Furthermore, if you check out the SMPTE/DCI specs for light on the sides versus center, you can only achieve it with something along the lines of a 1.2-1.3 gain (It isn't a "minimum" spec but a desired level on the sides). Me personally, I like matte white screens like the Stewart Snomatte 100. My next favorite is the Stewart Ultramatte 130. They aren't practical (price wise) for a commercial cinema though. I've noted as screens tip towards 1.4 gain and beyond, they get REALLY gaining in appearance.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 05-28-2015 05:31 PM                     I see what you mean but I still do not agree. I have plenty of experience with perlux and Silver screens and I simply hate them. I don't find the picture more snappy. This is my personal view of course. I believe DCI asks for a max of -10% for sides which is rarely achieved. A high gain screen will worsen that in my experience, the most even light is achieved with a matte screen. Do I understand correctly what you mean?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-28-2015 09:16 PM                     I was going to point out that the Harkness Perlux are particularly nasty in the 1.4 and above screens. And all silver screens suck. If you ever see a Stewart Ultramatte 130, you'll see that it can look pretty incredible. The MDI 1.5 hasn't looked particularly bad to me but clearly won't hit DCI spec on the sides (if flat). I haven't seen a Severtson low-gain yet but am interested since they too have a 1.3.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 05-29-2015 03:29 AM                     What's the price tag of the screen you mention?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-29-2015 05:33 AM                     Stewart is typically 4-5 times the price of a "standard" screen of the MDI/Harkness/Severtson. Their gain is spot on, are seamless and won't morie. They also are the only ones that have a roll-down screen that looks like a fixed install screen when it is down. If desired, complete with masking for every format you could want. If you want a roll-down in the 40-foot wide range with full automatic masking...be prepared for something over $100,000! For fixed screens, it is not unusual for screening room sized screens to be in the 15-20K range (USD). As I said, crazy expensive.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 05-29-2015 06:23 AM                     You can buy a Barco P machine and use a Matte screen then!  |  IP: Logged

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