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This topic comprises 8 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
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Author
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Topic: How long will Dolby Atmos last?
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 03-21-2016 04:05 PM
quote: Paul Linfesty
Well, it does say that any sound can be isolated in a single speaker.
Yeah, whatever they actually want to imply with it, it suggests something "objecty". Since they do not advertse the Atmos brand, which is generally known to be a premium brand worth advertising, it will probably be an DTS:X based system they're installing.
quote: Mitchell Dvoskin
I suspect sound will never be a motivating factor for the majority of the public. When they go out to a movie, they can see the picture and our eyes know good from bad. While our ears know good sound from bad sound, they do not have a frame of reference to judge if what they are hearing sounds better or worse than the same film playing in a different sound format.
This is why some unbiased research into this whole subject would still make a lot of sense for the industry as a whole. Frankly, we don't know how much the average public actually cares about those different sound formats. We probably all have our own theories, backed up by gut feelings and experience, but that's about it.
quote: Mike Blakesley
I've had people over the years ask how many "watts" our sound system is, or how many speakers do we have, that kind of thing.
People are easily impressed by some big numbers often signifying nothing. "Mine has more * than yours!"
The IMAX marketing team understood that part, that's how they market their 100 Gazillion Megaoomph sound system.
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 03-23-2016 10:01 AM
quote: Mitchell Dvoskin
I suspect sound will never be a motivating factor for the majority of the public. When they go out to a movie, they can see the picture and our eyes know good from bad. While our ears know good sound from bad sound, they do not have a frame of reference to judge if what they are hearing sounds better or worse than the same film playing in a different sound format.
I think in either the case of audio or video, people notice when things are at the extremes. If the audio or video are without problems, they have no complaints but they are also unimpressed. If a speaker is crackling or there are visual flaws in the presentation, most people will notice, but to varying degrees.
The upside is that if you can put out a truly impressive presentation, people will take notice (but also, to varying degrees). My guess is that people will be more likely to notice impressive sound than they will notice impressive video.
The video in a presentation competes with what we see in normal life, and our eyes are better at taking in the natural world than any video system (film or digital) is capable of projecting.
However, sound is where movies can excel in comparison to real life. Few people experience the wide range sounds that are portrayed in movies, so the opportunity exists to improve upon the real-world experience. Low-end bass is one area where many theaters fall short, and where the most opportunity to make an impression can be found. When you watch a parade, what would the marching band sound like if the percussion section sounded like they were banging on toy drums and overturned buckets? The bass drum hits your gut and triggers a response, just like an explosion or even a fist-fight on-screen.
quote: Mitchell Dvoskin
Remembering, the majority of the public is still listening to television via the cheap built-in tv speakers rather than a home theatre sound system. I find it hard to believe that they will pay a premium for better sound.
This is the opportunity that theaters have to create a positive impression! Their experience at a movie theater had better be much better than their experience at home, because if it's not, the theater has failed its paying customers. If you are just trying to be as good as John Smith's soundbar, you're not setting your standards high enough.
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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-24-2016 08:21 AM
So an article appeared in today's local paper about the Maya's new MPX system. The article says that it was developed with Dolby, so the question I have is, is Dolby franchising out it's ATMOS system?
(from The Bakersfield Californian)
Now hear this: Maya Cinemas is putting the audio in auditorium with a new sound system capable of nearly 10 times the power available in most theaters, according to a spokesman for the four-theater chain.
“Our system can use up to 200,000 watts of power. In a normal theater, you’d be lucky to have 30,000 to 40,000 watts,” said Larry Porricelli, who announced the enhanced auditorium will debut to Bakersfield movie-goers this evening with the premiere of “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.”
“It makes it fun for the moviegoer.”
And fun for the movie-goer has become the price of staying in business for theater chains, forced into a constant state of technological one-upmanship in an age when viewers demand an ever-more-life-like picture, superior sound quality and a visceral, immersive experience.
In December, Reading Cinemas brought IMAX technology to Bakersfield in a seven-figure auditorium overhaul that unveiled a new screen, seating, blacked-out walls and carpeting, as well as sound and projection upgrades.
Though Maya’s conversion of Auditorium No. 1 to its proprietary MPX technology was not as extensive a retrofit, chain founder Frank Haffar estimates the cost at a quarter million dollars — worth every penny, he said, for the enhanced experience.
“You feel the sound,” Haffar said. “... The way we designed and tilted the speakers, the sound doesn’t have to be so loud that it bothers you. You are part of the movie. You feel it. You sense it.”
The technology, developed by Maya in association with Dolby, was unveiled at the chain’s Fresno cineplex last year.
“It was unreal, the response,” Porricelli said. “It became greater and greater and greater. That theater is the highest-grossing auditorium at Maya in Fresno.”
Patrons will pay an extra $2 for the experience, bringing the movie ticket to $12 for general admission, $9 for children and seniors.
The technology also brightens the picture, Porricelli said, and requires the use of two projectors. The format is available in both 2D and 3D presentations.
“We have an expression we use: Experience the difference. That’s about all I can say without going into all the technological things.”
The MPX theater is one of the two largest in Maya Bakersfield’s 16-auditorium complex. The other theater, Auditorium 16, will continue to offer the Dolby Atmos surround-sound system, introduced in 2012.
It was the innovative Atmos system that persuaded Haffar that Maya could improve on the concept in both sound quality and flexibility, he said. The MPX system was developed to be compatible with any movie, whereas Dolby Atmos is limited to films whose sound is processed using that format.
“The technology, we invented it for us,” Porricelli said, “but other companies have also invented their own. It’s a trend in the industry.”
In addition to the Bakersfield auditorium, the Los Angeles-headquartered Maya will debut the technology this week at its complexes in Salinas and Pittsburg, Calif.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-24-2016 12:08 PM
This "Maya MPX" thing is yet another stupid alphabet soup infected acronym concept to cash in on the Lie-MAX scheme without having to pay IMAX any money. Add this one to the dozens of other premium big screen fake formats in North American cinemas alone. It pisses me off when a movie theater chain has the balls to suggest they developed their own unique sound/projection presentation format and then hide the sound/projection details of what's really behind the premium screen brand.
To me, I only care about the specifics of what sound format is being presented and what projection format is being presented. For instance, 2K, 4K, dual 2K, dual 4K, laser, HDR and other stuff like that for projection and things like 5.1, 7.1, Atmos, Auro, etc. for the sound mix. That actually tells me something.
I couldn't give two shits about some alphabet soup nonsense label stuck on the auditorium entrance. I feel insulted by the label, as if I'm too stupid to understand anything resembling details. The practice of using a brand the theater chain invented to hide sound/projection specifics just gives off the stink of bullshit. You get to part with $14 for your ticket and then you might experience a 2K movie letterboxed on an unmasked screen and hear some cranked up 5.1 audio, but it's essentially no better than watching a Blu-ray on your big HDTV at home.
Many of these non-IMAX premium priced theaters are fundamentally no different at all than a normal priced theater. The room and screen is just bigger, that's it. But you'll pay at least a couple or so dollars extra to watch the movie in that room.
If you're able to check the booth you're bound to find just one single projector. It may only be capable of 2K and not 4K. Very few of these non-IMAX premium theaters are equipped with dual projectors. Most of these non-IMAX premium theaters only have 5.1 or 7.1 surround. All but two of Carmike's Big D theaters are wired for 7.1 (they have one Auro screen in Georgia and one Atmos screen in Illinois). A small minority of Regal's RPX theaters have Atmos or Auro; the majority of those have conventional surround sound. Cinemark has just about all its "XD" screens equipped with Auro 11.1, but since title support for Auro is so bad most movies on XD screens just have ordinary yet loud sound anyway.
IMAX with Laser and Dolby Cinema are the only digital-based premium big screen concepts out there that actually interest me at all. The theater I usually visit to watch movies in Dolby Atmos charges only $1 extra above the normal price, so that's not too bad a deal.
Regarding DTS:X, it is an object oriented surround sound format like Dolby Atmos. However, it's very unclear how it is getting deployed into commercial movie theaters. Title support is pretty limited. If anything, there is more DTS:X activity going on in the home theater space than in commercial cinemas.
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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-24-2016 09:12 PM
This TV coverage of Maya MPX really cracks me up with how gullible people are by hype! http://www.turnto23.com/news/local-news/just-in-time-for-batman-versus-superman-maya-ready-to-unveil-new-mpx-theater
The truth: The Christie duo projector has been in place in this auditorium since December 2012 with the Cirque du Soleil movie. Only, they have been using for strictly for 3-D (2D only uses the direct projector). Except for these new speakers, nothing has changed in the theatre. Even the demo they are showing in the TV clip uses a Dolby snipe, but for 7.1, something they already had. And as stated, they still have Dolby Atmos in their other large screen. (This screen is 50 feet wide before MPX, and is 50 feet wide with MPX. And people interviewd seem to be buying it. one couldn't explain it, but it was just better (I guess because it has MPX above the door). Things like this will kill the theatre business in the long run.
NOTE: for some reason, this site didn't allow me to copy and paste the accompanying article.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-27-2016 01:50 PM
The "beds" in an Atmos mix are, in effect, channels. Beds work exactly the same as channels in the surround environment and assign across the same speakers in an array as any surround channel. You can have up to six beds working in the surround field since there are effectly six surround arrays (left, right, rear left, rear right, top left and top right).
Objects are floated independently above those beds. I think of the relationship in the manner of a layered Photoshop image. You can flatten a bunch of imagery into the bottom background layer and then have individual things floating on top of it on separate layers.
You can cheat a plain 5.1 or 7.1 mix into Atmos by simply porting all the down-mixed audio in those channels into beds within an Atmos layout. The CP-850 basically does this already from a hardware standpoint when playing conventional LPCM surround tracks for backward compatibility. The CP-850 also does this if the movie theater has gone on the cheap regarding the number of amplifers it put into the sound system. A minimal Atmos setup would be just a 9.1 channel sound system.
A lot of movies mixed in Atmos are really hardly any different than conventional 5.1 or 7.1. Basically the mix has 5.1 or 7.1 worth of beds, ported over from the original mix. The post production crew sprinkles a few object-based effects into the mix. Maybe they'll do just enough to let you know the ceiling speakers are there once or twice in the movie. The end result is a mediocre sounding mix that is Atmos in name only. This is a common complaint I have about movies presented in Atmos. Far too many of them sound no different than conventional 5.1 or 7.1. Not enough movies are taking advantage of Atmos' creative capabilities. Unfortunately it takes extra time to make a really good Atmos mix. Post production crews don't have much time to complete projects at all, much less have time to do more elaborate things.
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 03-27-2016 05:00 PM
Even the ceiling speakers have their own bed, so you could use that Atmos feature without defining a single "object".
But yeah, not all Atmos mixes are created equal, but then again, sound mixes in general aren't created equal. There are lots of bad surround mixes out there and many of those mixes aren't even using 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 to their full potential.
And in a world of oversized wall-to-wall, floor-to-ceiling screens and Atmos with 5 speakers behind the screen, why can't dialog not just follow where the mouth of the one speaking is? No, it has to come out dead center, always. Just like background music, which HAS to play in FL and FR, don't dare to use the surrounds for anything other than the occasional explosion, helicopter/fighter/ufo flyby or bunch of sirens sweeping by...
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