Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Avengers 3 & 4 (aka Avengers Infinity War I & II) shot entirely in "Liemax"

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Topic: Avengers 3 & 4 (aka Avengers Infinity War I & II) shot entirely in "Liemax"

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-09-2015 11:22 PM

Terry, Bobby has been around for a long time and even though you don't agree with him, he is logical, he understands the technology and something you have no ability to do...he understands marketing vs. reality.

So I tell you what, when you can prove to me that you do not work for IMAX, I'll let you back on the forums. In the meantime, I'm tired of getting complaints about your non-stop IMAX promotion on these forums, so you're gone until such time you can prove to me that you aren't being compensated by IMAX for your non-stop marketing efforts here.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-09-2015 11:25 PM

Terry, unlike you, I deal in specifics, not marketing bullshit and sheeple brand worship. Try as you might to defend your beloved IMAX brand, that company is not even a shadow of its former self with the role it has played in severely deteriorating the movie-going experience.

IMAX played a leading role in killing off film before it needed to be eliminated. That company also played a leading role in forcing TV screen like common width screens onto the movie-going public.

Don't talk to me about any about-face attitudes towards Dolby to justify your IMAX fanboy nonsense, which incidentally could be related to IMAX having to license Dolby 3D technology for its laser-based projection systems. I've been absolutely critical of Dolby when it came to their lossy Dolby Digital sound format and how they were trying to use brinksmanship tactics against DTS back in the 1990s. I've been a huge fan of DTS for a very long time. Nevertheless, Dolby Atmos has been the biggest development in movie theater sound since early 1990s, and I have no hesitation of acknowledging that. Nor do I have any hesitation of criticizing how DTS' Open MDA format is going to be misused and mis-marketed in the very same manner IMAX has been doing to lie to the general movie-going public.

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Daniel Schulz
Master Film Handler

Posts: 387
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 05-09-2015 11:48 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Even "IMAX with Laser" doesn't provide anything specifically unique which no other theater with a 4K laser projector could provide.

I have to push back a bit on this. I am in agreement with the forum consensus that LieMax is a disaster, and I also really dislike the common width/no masking paradigm that IMAX led the charge on.

But - there is a camp at IMAX that has been holding out for a projection system good enough to replace 15/70 film projection in the really big IMAX auditoriums, and they think they have finally got it with their new laser projectors. And I think they have - I've seen footage of native 15/70 film material, scanned at 8k, mastered at 4k for projection on this rig, and the footage was amazing. It was the first time in my life I've seen digital projection look as good as really good film. Part of it is the dual 4K system with the overlapping pixels, and some of it has to do with the Kodak voodoo that IMAX acquired - but it is a very different beast from standard 4K digital cinema.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-10-2015 12:54 AM

I have no doubt the 4K laser-based system IMAX is now deploying in a select few of its IMAX-branded theaters is going to be a tremendous improvement over the HDTV resolution Xenon-based systems they installed in hundreds upon hundreds of theaters worldwide.

Still I remain not convinced 4K resolution is a replacement for 15/65mm originated material. For me, 4K is an appropriate replacement for 35mm. I think 8K has to be the base target for 70mm, if not a bit higher than that. Obviously IMAX has to do something to remain in business until 8K projectors become available. 4K and laser is the next obvious step.

The thing I want to see for myself with a 4K laser-based IMAX installation is if they can show a properly focused image. All I've seen with their 2K Xenon systems is big, slightly out of focus imagery. Any kind of projection system needs optimal focus for optimal color and contrast. This would kind of get back to the "scope done right" angle and common height screens.

At any rate IMAX clearly doesn't have plans to replace all the Xenon-based 2K systems currently in service with new 4K laser-based systems. There is some press circulating about more than 70 orders in place for 4K laser-based IMAX projectors.

Out of personal interest with what is going on in my town, Carmike has tentative plans to put an IMAX-branded screen in their new Patroit 13 multiplex they're building here in Lawton. At first I thought the IMAX thing was a done deal at this new multiplex, but through the rumor mill I heard Carmike is still on the fence about it. And that is despite site signs installed on the construction site showing the big blue IMAX logo. For theater operators, image and sound quality obviously isn't the deciding factor. It's the business model. They have a hard time justifying letting IMAX dictate what movies will be played and for how long as well as giving up a bunch of the box office take to IMAX and the movie studios. This problem is at the core of why theater chains have their own private label premium screen concepts. The sad thing is when they create a private label concept it is usually a cheaper knock-off of Lie-MAX. Single projector, conventional sound, bigger than usual screen, bigger than usual price.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 05-10-2015 01:45 AM

Daniel, have you seen the other iteration of RGB laser-based systems out there, like the Christie, Christie/Dolby and Barco setup? And how do they compare to each other?

I've not yet seen laser-based IMAX and none of the IMAX theaters around here have released any press release nor have I heard rumors about impending upgrades. So, I will withhold judgement about that particular system.

quote: Bobby Henderson
Still I remain not convinced 4K resolution is a replacement for 15/65mm originated material. For me, 4K is an appropriate replacement for 35mm. I think 8K has to be the base target for 70mm, if not a bit higher than that. Obviously IMAX has to do something to remain in business until 8K projectors become available. 4K and laser is the next obvious step.

I've always wondered why nobody except a few planetariums have gone the route of stitching multiple images together to one single image. So not just two images layered over each other, but tiled and blended together. So, why didn't IMAX use a whole array of digital projectors to create for example, an 8K image? If there was one corporation where this would have made sense, it was IMAX, because they do have access to content where it will make a difference.

Well, we probably know the reasons, but it's still a shame so much people bought into this blatant ripoff.

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Daniel Schulz
Master Film Handler

Posts: 387
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 05-10-2015 11:39 AM

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Daniel, have you seen the other iteration of RGB laser-based systems out there, like the Christie, Christie/Dolby and Barco setup? And how do they compare to each other?

Not yet in a real world environment - I've seen some demos at NAB under conditions that made it hard to make any real evaluations. I am very much looking forward to seeing them though, and there are some installations happening around Los Angeles that will give me a chance to check them out.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-10-2015 03:41 PM

I don't think we need "experiences" or Imersion" technology what the industry needs is good films with plots and acting that involve the audience not being just numbed by technology

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