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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Author
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Topic: current preferred server (6/2015)
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Carsten Kurz
Film God
Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted 06-13-2015 07:29 PM
quote: Harold Hallikainen
One idea that popped up a bit up the thread is the unreliability of a single server driving several screens. I wonder if RAID could be replaced or supplemented by RAIS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redundant_Array_of_Inexpensive_Servers ).
I don't think one should increase system complexity by using distributed storage. As a matter of fact, I do not even see a real issue with existing RAID systems locally connected - and I don't think anyone here does. Nothing beats that in terms of guaranteed realtime performance. Hardware RAID , software RAID, both have their issues, but in general, there is little to complain as around 10 years of regular digital cinema operations prove.
They talk about increasing HFR/4k bandwiths beyond 500MBit/s. How do you support that with traditional network storage hardware. Yes, you can go 10Gig, but where is the benefit cost wise over traditional locally connected storage?
Even if a distributed system creates a different level of redundancy - it still remains a single point of failure for a whole multiplex - be it on the switch or software complexity/central management level.
Now who wants all his screens to go down the same moment? And for what? To have a bunch of storage servers in a central location as opposed to individual servers in the booths?
We should be glad all established servers actually run as solid as they do. The manufacturers should strive to keep that level of robustness for their future products, not create additional weaknesses.
- Carsten
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 06-13-2015 09:01 PM
Mark, we used to do that with GDC servers. In fact I believe I was the first one to suggest it. Doesn't matter though, the issue is unfortunately as the software is updated, your backup drive sits there on outdated software. Likewise any change in the system (perhaps a new cue or something) isn't updated. In the end by the time the backup drive is utilized, it's so far out of date that you aren't really saving the next show.
Since you apparently haven't been through the process yet, when the drive does die and you purchase another one from GDC, you then have to sit and step through all of the upgrades to get to where you need to be, so even that isn't a "simple" fix. It all takes time.
Quite literally of all the servers, a corrupted OS can be remedied the fastest on a Dolby with a clean install disc. That's something nobody else offers. Drop it in and voila, it's just like a new server again. (Note, by "just like a new server", that also means no content loaded.) There's a catch to everything! However the Dolby is still the fastest to recover from. Doremi is second, as you need to update the software, firmware and security manager, but you do get to save the time of not having to reload the content (like with GDC...but GDC takes longer to upgrade than Doremi).
I do have a great idea for you Mark. Since you are the only person in the universe that has never had a GDC fail, you need to offer "Mark G's extended warranty and tech support for GDC products". I would gladly sign up and you wouldn't have to do anything since any GDC you are involved with is apparently impervious to failure. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Marco Giustini
Film God
Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007
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posted 06-14-2015 06:27 AM
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
But as I mentioned there is room for a backup OS HD in there and it takes all of 5 minutes to slide the server out move the cables over to the new drive, reboot and make up your show. Basically zero down time at all.
Cool.
So the server fails, the customer calls you and you ask Scotty to transport you straight on site to slide the server out and swap the cable. Total down time: 5 minutes, no shows lost, patrons clapping you from the auditorium while the curtains open and you disappear in a glittering of light to the infinity and beyond.
I also guess all your servers are in very accessible positions, clean and without a tangle of cables on the back.
Also, as Brad mentioned, I assume that the other HDD managed to keep up with the upgrades wirelessly over the years.
==
I feel server manufacturers should do more to make the servers more robust in case of failure.
Dolby should make a 'reinstall OS only' feature on their servers. Just the OS partition. It doesn't sound very complicate to do.
Also, we need a "backup all" button. Everything can be backed up but it's not straight forward. They also need to introduce a way to unconfigure the server without losing shows, serials and GPIO - or at least allow us to easily restore those. You can back up serials and GPIOs at the moment, not shows.
I appreciate that the reason for the server to malfunction may be the show database (it's just XML files though...) but I'd like to try and I could repeat the procedure with no shows if it still does not work. A script to try and fix a broken database would also be a good thing.
Finally, we should be able to extract logs from VNC and save them on the content partition, which can then be remotely accessed.
Doremi should move the OS on the RAID - maybe keep the SSD but allow the server to boot from RAID if the SSD has failed. That would give 100% redundancy. Doremi should also allow the customer to restore some sort of ISO on the SSD, in case something wrong happened, even though that has never been the case.
The emergency USB is a good idea, but again it implies that the customer is happy to open the server. Also implies that the USB stick is up to date with the software. Doable but I don't feel it's the best backup plan here.
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 06-14-2015 10:56 AM
How many of your GDCs are on rails? The only one that seemingly supplied rails was Dolby. And of those, how many people made the cables and secured them such one can slide the server out without yanking the cables all to heck? I know WE did on the Dolbys but I've not seen others do it. It took a bit of work too to put the rails into various pedestals or racks as the rail placement often didn't fit in with the rest of the rack's needs or how the pedestal was constructed.
As for GDC 7.8...I agree...up until this year. This year, we are getting SMPTE packages with greater frequency...at some point your customer is going to get a package that won't play/ingest. 8.01-build200 (current) should be stable..build 186 was mostly stable...just found a problem with it this past week after having months of glitch free life.
On Dolby 4.9, the ability to remotely save serial and GPIO I hear is coming (believe it when I see it).
With Dolby, you have to think like they do..."Everyone should buy Dolby products." As such, everyone will by a Dolby TMS like the DSL100 or DSL200. With one of them on your system, it keeps a database of all of your shows and cues and everything. Thus, if you run an install disc on a server...once you configure it to the correct auditorium, all of your shows and cues and everything will be put right back where you had them in no time without ANY effort on your part. All you need to do is move the content. No problem, use the Copy Clips feature to pull the content from the "best" source on the network (Library if possible). And in no time, you'll be back up in full running capacity. See how easy it is? Your only mistake was NOT buying DOLBY EVERYTHING because you wanted things like "VPFs" or wanted a "Real Automation" or anyone of a number of reasons to not buy Dolby everything...for that you will not have the niceties of a DSL backing up the database. However, if the DSL can do it, then it should be doable period! Wouldn't it be nice to be able to have that sort of storage off the server in case of emergencies?
Remember too...if you do things the DOLBY way, the DSS line was by far the most pre-configured out of the box. Their only big flaw in the plan was to presume Theatre 1...thus if you bring a server back from scratch and it isn't Theatre 1, it will stomp on Theatre 1 until it is reconfigured. After an Install disc, it probably should have come up asking what auditorium number you wanted it to be.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 06-14-2015 11:03 AM
quote: Steve Guttag
For me...the Dolby DSS line represents the most reliable servers in the industry.
Dolby's GUI again is simply the best.
+1. Although I've only spent serious time with one other server model with which to compare it (Doremi DCP2000), this is another vote for the DSS servers and Dolby's front end. From a hardware standpoint they are thoughtfully designed (e.g. the components that are most likely to fail and need replacement, principally hard drives, fans and power supplies, being very easily replaceable), and the Show Manager front end does everything you need it to and is very clear and simple.
There are two features that the Doremi has that the Dolby does not, that I miss on the Dolby, however:
- The ability to specify a pause point in the DCP that will pause automatically. So if you've got a 10-second DCP of a logo slide to display while someone is speaking, you can set a pause point in Doremi Cinelister, such that it automatically pauses midway - you don't have to remember to press the button.
- No DNS capability on the DSS200, meaning that it has to have a direct, static IPv4 address to the outside world if you want to ingest content over the Internet.
Also, if Dolby were to provide off-the-shelf packages of serial automation commands to drive commonly found non-Dolby equipment to which it could be hooked up (e.g. AP20), that would make it even better.
That having been said, these are minor niggles compared to all the good points of the Dolby machine, and I'm still scratching my head as to why it's being discontinued. I really hope that at the very least, Dolby produces a version of Show Manager to run on Doremi hardware. The Doremi pseudo-Windows style front end is simply abysmal. The projectionist who uses our Doremi the most is a hugely knowledgeable, experienced and unflappable festival veteran, and she loathes it as much as I do!
Another vote for Dolby is in their customer service. If you open a ticket on their website and flag the issue up as potentially show-stopping, the phone will ring within minutes - guaranteed.
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 06-14-2015 12:15 PM
A couple of points.
Regarding the Pause cue...how handy are you with solder or crimps? Use the GPIO port on the DSS server to define one of the GPOs to a toggle called "Pause" and then tie that to the "Pause" GPI pin. When the cue fires...it self pauses and awaits your command to restart. Not exactly rocket science but "automation" is NOT the DSS' strong suit. If you have an automation system...again, no biggie...define a cue for Pause, have the automation "Pause" the show.
True that on the lack of DNS (also means thinks like the NTP pool are not very viable). BUT it isn't too hard to get the IP of something "out there" on the web. Just ping to the web address and the ping will return its IP so it isn't the end of the world for just setting up a site for FTP like it would for how the NTP Pool works. That said, Dolby is so strict on the NTP thing and how many hops it takes to get to NTP, I use our Cardinal Care computers as the NTP source so NTP is just one hop away. NTP reliability has skyrocketed since. Our NOC systems where the NOC is a VPN tunnel also are quite reliable since the number of hops is minimal.
As a matter of personal preference, I don't like any part of the system to really be out of the building for security reasons. So again, the lack of DNS is a non-issue for us, it never needs to know about things outside of its small little universe.
Marco...I hear 4.9 will also allow (now brace yourself) Ethernet control of external devices like sound processors. What a modern concept! I bet the others will do back flips trying to catch up to this "technology." ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
No problem on the database at all. You don't have to do anything OTHER than unconfigure the DSL for the database and force it to rebuild. I recently did this when I changed the IP scheme of a site. I wanted it to forget about all of the little IP addresses it once knew and then work with the new ones. I had the DSL200 unconfigure just about everything but content. Pretty quickly, it found everything and all was harmonious.
The Individual servers maintain themselves and are their own islands. So they were unaffected by it all. They still had all of their shows and cues and everything. It was the DSL's job to see what each server had and harmonize ITSELF, not take anything away from an existing server.
As such, your situation can't happen can't happen. If the database is wacked somehow. Take the DSL off line, make sure all of the individual servers have what you want, and then unconfigure the DSL to force it to rebuild the database clean...presto...you are back in business in almost no time.
Again, if you use Dolby everything, they have you covered VERY well. If you stray from the pack...well...shame on you! If Dolby didn't make it, you don't need it. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Due to how the serial thing works (And how hokey it really is) there is no way to have preconfigured libraries. They don't even do that for Dolby products. What I have are serial files for the complete systems we use. And since we almost always have an automation (eCNA), all of the commands are identical to the automation regardless of projector, sound processor...etc. It is the automation's job to translate that to actual equipment commands. For those we do maintain a library of various commands as does EPRAD. But again, you'll get no argument from me that DSS's automation "features" are lacking as compared to most all other products. What you really want, Leo, is in the configuration of the server for Dolby to take their logo off for a moment and add other brands to its built-in knowledge base so you can have USL, QSC or Datasat or whatever processor be a choice, just like for the projectors. Remember, on a DSS, the volume indicator is also a remote control. You don't have to preset individual volumes like "5.6" as in other servers. If you have a CP650, CP750 or CP850, the entire range is at your disposal at all times. And what do you do with people like QSC? That INSIST on the silly dB scale for volume control? The volume indicator is part of the Dolby UI. Handy too since it can be used as a remote volume control if you are VNCed into the server on your phone. There is but so much burden you can expect a sound company to accommodate another sound company's product and their "design choices."
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Marco Giustini
Film God
Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007
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posted 06-14-2015 01:21 PM
quote: Steve Guttag
Marco...I hear 4.9 will also allow (now brace yourself) Ethernet control of external devices like sound processors.
Gosh, I need to sit down and have a drink now! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
quote: Steve Guttag
If the database is wacked somehow. Take the DSL off line, make sure all of the individual servers have what you want, and then unconfigure the DSL to force it to rebuild the database clean...presto...you are back in business in almost no time.
Ehm... I am not sure I share your optimism! Yes, this works, but it's far from being easy. My points:
1. I do not see many DSL's around. As such, Screen 1 is usually the TMS. Unconfiguring Screen 1's database means... you're losing the shows and serial commands for that screen.
Ergo, in case something goes nuts I have to unconfigure both ShowStores and lose all the shows. Not ideal.
What I am suggesting is some more interaction:
"A backup database has been detected, would you like to restore it? Yes/No" - Easy peasy. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
DNS should be enabled if there is no specific reason to keep it off. Yes, you can ping pool.ntp.org and see what it says but NTP servers do go offline or - as seen a few times - the ISP will block port 43 so you can still ping the server but it won't synchronise. To test remotely you'll have to login as root, disable ntpd, run ntpdate on that server to see if it syncs. If not, repeat till you find one which works.
If you don't know the root password - it shouldn't be known - the only way is to set a different IP and reboot and wait for the UI to come up. Again, not practical nor ideal.
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