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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
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Author
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Topic: Are the Big Chains Still Committed to Sony?
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Marco Giustini
Film God
Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007
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posted 11-03-2015 09:17 AM
As Carsten said, it was because of brightness. That is picture quality too.
That does not make the Sony a bad machine. If it did, then Dolby 3D would be the worst 3D on the market ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
You just have to acknowledge that Sony machines are not the brightest. And remember that 4K in DLP world is delivering a very poor contrast ratio by definition.
Steve,
I noticed blue's were different but again I had to look at a still picture on screen to see the difference. Too many people are going around saying that Sony is delivering a terrible picture, washed out, with fake colours. That is not true, period. It is slightly different, sure, and we may like DLP or SXRD more, sure.
On a bright scene we may have an educated argument on what we like most, DLP or SXRD.
On a darker scene I can't see how you could choose the DLP to be honest.
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Carsten Kurz
Film God
Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted 11-03-2015 04:22 PM
The SXRD Panels are in fact reflective (as all LCoS are), like DLP. However, one could argue they are still based on LCD technology, and while light is reflected from DLP mirror surfaces, it actually travels INTO an SXRD panel surface to a small extent, and is reflected back from there. Panel wear, however, is very different from transmissive 'real' LCDs that way. There are a lot of stories, but very little hard facts
The left side discoloration is a typical issue with R510/515 when operated in 'not-so-clean' booths. The light-engine side air inlet does use laminar airflow to keep filters and mirrors clean. However, the reusable air-filters are not super-good, and the optical-filter frames create sort of a 'dead spot' on the filter front part (screen left) for the laminar airflow - hence dust accumulates there and needs to be cleaned away from time to time. These elevated filter frames are clearly a design flaw.
You can calibrate that discoloration out using Sonys calibration camera as well (partially...), but, once you know where it comes from and how easy it is to clean, doing it the proper way is the only proper way.
These new Sonys are really built for very clean booths, and, as always, beware of the popper...
- Carsten
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 11-05-2015 06:57 AM
quote: Carsten Kurz
The SXRD Panels are in fact reflective (as all LCoS are), like DLP. However, one could argue they are still based on LCD technology, and while light is reflected from DLP mirror surfaces, it actually travels INTO an SXRD panel surface to a small extent, and is reflected back from there. Panel wear, however, is very different from transmissive 'real' LCDs that way. There are a lot of stories, but very little hard facts.
There is a pertinent lack of objective, large scale studies comparing both technologies witch each other, so it's all a bit based on personal accounts.
But, since the mirror is behind the LCD layer, light travels trough the LCD layer, not just once but twice actually. LCoS and thus SXRD is prone to "LCD wear" from the constant exposure to high light levels and the remaining UV light still coming trough, despite UV filters. LED or laser based sources might probably be promising candidates to increase longevity of LCoS based light engines, since it doesn't produce any UV light.
I witnessed this wear on a 220 with some years of intensive use in a small local cinema. This machine is also still on the first light engine. Despite attempts at re-calibration, colors still look somewhat washed out. It's not terribly distracting for most movies and most people will probably not even notice, but if you're watching content with vivid imagery, it becomes clear almost immediately, if you know the difference of how it is supposed to look.
Personally, I like the look of very bright images on a LCoS based projector more than on a DLP projector. But an all-white shot on an LCoS based projector that hasn't seen any calibration for a long time looks just awful. It seems that some parts of the LCoS surfaces wear out in a different pattern than others.
It seems to me DLP is a little bit more immune to this. DLP obviously has other symptoms, like an increased chance of stuck mirrors over time. Also, if you see how a DLP heat sink looks after a few years of heavy use, you could easily imagine some wear on the mirror surfaces affecting reflectance. More recent TI DMD chips use a dark coating on the backside of the DMD, to further reduce light leaks and increase "blackness". This coating will probably suffer the same way those heat sinks suffer over time.
I wouldn't discount LCoS as a viable technology for the future entirely. Right now it's clear the LCD based approach has some limitations regarding maximum light levels that can be handled. Things can be partly overcome by stacking units, but that's a rather expensive hack if you ask me.
Still, if you look at the semi professional and professional LCoS market beyond cinema applications, you see some quite amazing things being done with LCoS based projectors. One big advantage is the almost complete lack of spacing between pixels and therefore a far less visible pixel grid, without the need of focus trickery. Also, some of those projectors show promising dark levels, without the need of trickery like auto-iris or the need of a very expensive double-stepped light engine approach.
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Marco Giustini
Film God
Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007
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posted 11-05-2015 07:22 AM
quote: Marcel Birgelen
I witnessed this wear on a 220 with some years of intensive use in a small local cinema. This machine is also still on the first light engine. Despite attempts at re-calibration, colors still look somewhat washed out.
Did you re-calibrate gamma and White Balance too? Shooting 100/80% is not enough after a while. It's part of the service schedule of the machine, nothing special.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
Personally, I like the look of very bright images on a LCoS based projector more than on a DLP projector. But an all-white shot on an LCoS based projector that hasn't seen any calibration for a long time looks just awful. It seems that some parts of the LCoS surfaces wear out in a different pattern than others.
As said, that is the light path getting dirty.
You just have to acknowledge that a Sony machine needs some maintenance steps which - if not performed - can affect your picture quality. It's an expensive machine, I can't see this as a massive issue to be honest. I cannot negatively judge a projector because the picture quality degrades over time if you don't service the projector! Sure, DLP's are better on this regard. But I wouldn't pay a ticket to a cinema who intentionally refuses to have their system checked every 12 months. If the projector is abandoned to its own destiny, the same will apply to the sound system and to everything else in the building.
Finally, I heard of this 'washed out' issue with Sony machines too. Personally, I've never seen a Sony - doesn't matter how old - with washed out picture. I don't doubt you saw it but it was either a faulty/dirty machine or maybe something that has been addressed before my time in the D-Cinema world.
I do remember someone saying "we look forward to seeing DLP 4K chips available on the market so we can finally have proper contrast ratio" though ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Carsten Kurz
Film God
Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted 11-16-2015 03:25 PM
http://www.dcinematoday.com/dc/pr.aspx?newsID=4208
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Basingstoke, U.K.—Nov 16, 2015
Mars Cinema Group Chooses Sony 4K Digital Cinema Providing Unmatched Image Quality to A Greater Number of Movie Goers
Turkey’s largest cinema operator, Mars Cinema Group, has chosen to purchase a total of 82 digital cinema projectors from Sony
One of Turkey’s most prestigious cinema chains, Mars Cinema Group, has chosen to purchase a total of 82 Sony Digital Cinema 4K projectors to provide state of the art digital 4K to its customers in their upcoming new cinema builds over the next year. Mars Cinema Group will be equipped with an array of Sony’s 4K digital projector and 3D systems in the coming months.
Mars Cinema Group provides services with Cinemaximum cinemas in Turkey. Its theatres are already 100% digital and the operator combines crystal clear 3D picture quality with all the advantages 3D brings to the movies, ensuring its visitors have a realistic, unrivalled cinematic experience. Mars Cinema Group also holds a box office market share of 50% in the rapidly expanding Turkish cinema industry.
The decision to press forward with Sony Digital Cinema 4K for their new cinema builds ensures Mars customers will continue to experience the very best in picture quality, enjoying crystal clear content. Movies projected in Sony 4K are bursting with life-like detail and rich vivid colours. 4K has come of age and is the choice of audiences and the industry alike with more and more movies being shot in 4K and mastered as a 4K DCP.
Sony will supply 45 digital cinema 3D systems as well as providing 41 SRX-R510P projectors, giving audiences the immersive thrill of Sony 4K in smaller auditoriums. 29 SRX-R515P projectors will be supplied for the mid-sized auditoriums and 8 of Sony’s new DCI certified dual projection system the SRX-R515DS will be for Mars Cinema’s large premium screens. Utilising an industry leading 8,000:1 contrast ratio with the performance of the SRX-R515 projector head, the SRX-R515DS assures best-possible image quality with the lowest operating costs and easy set up thanks to the unique high pressure mercury lamp arrays in both projectors for premium large format (PLF) screens. It combines two Sony SRX-R515 projectors, delivering reference light levels for 2D presentation on screens up to 19.5m for 14ft-L on white screen with 1.8 gain, or 3D on screens as large as 23m for 4.5ft-L on silver screen with 2.4 gain (installation dependent). On smaller screens, the system delivers a lot of headroom in light output for those exhibitors who would like to project 3D images already going beyond today’s light level standards.
From Ankara to Van, Mardin to Izmir, a total of 10 new cinemas belonging to Mars Cinema Group will be installing Sony Digital Cinema 4K. The systems will be set up by Omega Cinema Systems, Sony’s digital cinema distributor and a trusted expert in complete Digital Cinema Solutions around Turkey and neighboring countries. Mars Cinema Group will also receive maintenance and support from Omega Cinema Systems for the next 5 years. This gives the cinema operator the peace of mind and freedom to focus on their customers, providing a comprehensive and flexible approach allowing operators to build a sustainable business on their own terms. Sony 4K digital cinema projector systems offer movie-goers the highest quality, most immersive and entertaining viewing experience possible.
Sony Digital Cinema 4K Business Development Manager Tim Potter welcomed the partnership, stating, “In a time where movie goers are demanding the best visual experience, we are seeing a greater demand for improved image quality in cinema. From large cinema chains to smaller independent theaters, Sony is already offering movie-goers superior viewing experience with Sony 4K Digital Cinema projectors in over 18,000 cinemas. We are very happy that with this partnership with Mars Cinema Group we will be able to offer even more people 4K and Sony Digital Cinema 3D quality in cinemas across Turkey.”
“We are continuing our efforts to offer the best cinema experience in all corners of Turkey. As we continue to grow, our need for new projectors has also grown.” said Kurt Rieder, CEO of Mars Cinema Group. “We carefully compared 4K offerings from all manufacturers and Sony’s projectors distinguish themselves by being the best image quality available on the market today. Sony Digital Cinema 4K lets us give our guests the picture quality they deserve. This combined with a low total cost of ownership made the deal really attractive to us and our guests”.
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You probably wouldn't call this a 'BIG' chain, but deals like this have become scarce now in the digital cinema market with the rollout being completed.
- Carsten
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