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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » High Capacity and Compatibility server in 2016 (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   
Author Topic: High Capacity and Compatibility server in 2016
Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 03-18-2016 11:10 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't want to pay any particular premium on the drives...shouldn't have to. Barco needs to allow for larger on-board storage. I'm guessing there is no NAS option, at this time?

As for Christie and Barco allowing for the ICMP...I suspect that the problem would be both ways. In theory, since everyone uses the same ICP...the ICMP should be able to work on any DLP projector.

One of the things that DCI was supposed to bring about was this avoidance of proprietary formats that lock one into a particular brand. The SDDS, Dolby Digtal and DTS debacle being the prime example of what they wanted to avoid. That is why all of the IMB slots use the same connectors/real estate to ensure ANYONE's IMB should work. Christie, at first tried to box out Dolby on their IMB slot but gave in (though they always had a "generic" option).

In my opinion, any projector manufacturer that is in the server business should be compelled to have their servers be compatible with any other DLP projector after a brief period (say 1-year after release). So of like when Atmos came out...it only worked on Dolby servers but in relatively short order all of the other servers could handle it, including the Barco Alchemy.

I don't have a problem with a manufacturer having "hooks" in their stuff such that when it resides in their own equipment that things unique to that equipment can take advantage of those features but the general part of being a server with normal serverly duties should be universal regardless of projector it is living in.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

- posted 03-18-2016 12:38 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
4.9 "fixes" the removal of the small files, as you call them,
I see, I thought it was supposed to be changed with 4.5! [Wink] (not joking)

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 03-18-2016 12:57 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I predicted all this would happen two or three years ago and I would resist installing any piece of gear if it comes under the following headings....

Any of the IMS servers. They are absolute crap!

Any server where you are stuck with only it's on board storage.

Anything where the OS also resides with the on board media storage.

Anything that doesn't allow external networking in of media via gigabit or esata connection for live playback of media.

Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 03-18-2016 01:57 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You are dead wrong on the OS not residing on the RAID. While you could argue that OS should be on a mirror with 2 drives. Having the OS on a separate internal, never to be seen drive is like a silent cancer...you don't know you have it until you are struck.

Having the OS on the RAID has yet to be an issue.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 03-18-2016 05:52 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually a wise technician will know it exists and any of them can be changed out in under 10 minutes and you'd be back up and running before your server with the raided OS has even reloaded. Oh did you lose your media too when your raid crashed? I've seen that happen.

Of course I am still waiting on that OS drive failure to happen. It simply hasn't, and out of 336 servers that use them. Some are six years old now. The newer solid state drives will likely never fail as they are not written to constantly like media drives are.

Mark

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

- posted 03-18-2016 07:29 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As far as I know, Doremis do already support GUID partitioned drives. I think their kernel is just one step away from generic support for larger drives anyway. I don't think it is much work to implement it. And I don't think all their resources are bound to the IMS2000. I am sure the fact that there have been no updates on their base software does not mean they are busy with something else. I think a new release is around the corner with some substantial improvements. Sure also the Dolby takeover ate some resources while defining the future Dolby/Doremi ecosystem.

From my perspective, it is strange they gave up the CAT745, because techwise, it seems it was the better IMB than the Doremi IMB (okay, except for the secure clock). And I guess, with Gigabit-Ethernet-Connectivity, it should have been easier to marry a ShowVault with a CAT745 than a 220 with a Doremi IMB.

Okay, let's say I'm getting a bit mad here - Doremi software 3.0 will offer a choice of the classic Doremi GUI, their WEB-GUI, or, a classic Dolby GUI simulation...
Plus, of course, support for drives >2TB ;-)

- Carsten

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 03-18-2016 08:29 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I expect Doremi will support larger drives on the IMS eventually. Possibly on chassis servers as well, but I think development is... relaxed... on those.
Samsung just announced a 15TB 2.5" SSD... I think using those would be enough for most festivals?

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

- posted 03-19-2016 03:38 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Of course I am still waiting on that OS drive failure to happen. It simply hasn't,
Mark are we really discussing this again? Your 300 + drives will ALL fail at some point. It's not a possibility it's a fact.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 03-19-2016 09:46 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Might not matter though. We had to replace our server due to the media block failing. It was 5+ years old at the time and still running the original OS drive.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 03-19-2016 06:03 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To be clear, Mike...didn't HAVE to replace your server. You chose to replace it due to the high cost of mediablock replacement. It would still have been cheaper to change the mediablock. I think it is absurd to can a server in just 5 years.

While we have reduced some DSS100/DSP100s to backup duty...I've never retired a DSS server due to inability to make it run reliably. I've retired a GDC SX2001 server due to Mediablock failure. I was about to do another one but GDC cut a deal on putting the server back under extended warranty knowing that it would need a mediablock.

So, at this point, retiring a server seems like a silly thing to do as it is still cheaper to fix what you have.

The problem with the OS from GDC is you HAVE to source it from GDC or you have to clone (bit-for-bit) your drive before it craters and it will be a snapshot of the day you clone it.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 03-19-2016 07:11 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The server has not been canned and in fact has been converted into a rather nice TMS. This will allow Milke to switch over to Satellite down load which will save him money over what it costs to have hard drives shipped to his location. I had two media blocks die last summer, both were in booths that run rather warm in the summer. You me location lost its air conditioner no upstairs and that one died while they were awaiting the new units to be installed.

quote: Steve Guttag
The problem with the OS from GDC is you HAVE to source it from GDC or you have to clone (bit-for-bit) your drive before it craters and it will be a snapshot of the day you clone it.
So do you source your Dolby OS from Qube or something. That's all pretty irrelevant. OS's for this gear have to come from the respective manufacturer. And cloning it is actually an advantage because that carries the server serial number over to the new drive. Something you'd have to have GDC remote in to do with a fresh OS drive from them. They are very good about that stuff though.

In the next three or so years you are also likely to see full size servers vanish from manufacturer price lists. It's way too much needless expense for customers and manufacturers to endure and IMB type servers are the way it's going to go. They also save a tremendous amount of power, you drop 300 watts per screen!

Mark

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

- posted 03-20-2016 04:06 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dolby's OS is a generic install. It does not have to be tied to the specific machine. You can leave an install USB with the customer for emergencies and they'll be able to restore the server by sourcing new hdd's (in an emergency any hdd would work) and reinstalling the OS in 45 minutes. (With some minor network configuration involved of course).

Most of the time you won't need to worry about that as the raid rarely fails - unless you ignore the warnings.

Can a gdc customer do that at 10pm on a Saturday?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 03-20-2016 08:40 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
So do you source your Dolby OS from Qube or something. That's all pretty irrelevant. OS's for this gear have to come from the respective manufacturer.
It is amazing how you jump on the wrong part of an argument. The problem isn't sourcing the OS from the manufacturer (duh) but that the way GDC does it, if your OS drive craters, you have to buy an OS drive from them rather than just loading the OS. The OS for Dolby comes on every version of software and any version you are entitled to has it...use your own hard drives...they even publish a lists of tested/known certified drives rather than try to keep it a big secret. Then again, I know people that claim most any drive will work in a Dolby DSS because of their hardware RAID...including mix/match of different brands/models/duties. GDC and Doremi have to use specific drives and even you admit GDC can't run when the drives are near capacity.

Lets face it...the people that bought your systems you are telling to replace the stuff already and the shows with the new stuff...don't look one bit better for their money.

As for server companies making full servers...I would agree that is going to diminish...not because it should be because the IMB/IMS type solution will become more and more attractive. But back on topic...they need sufficient storage space options. I think that will happen over time.

All of that said, I STILL prefer the separate server approach. In fact, the only thing I don't like about the HDSDI systems is the Enigma module itself that can do wonky things or fail for no good reason and OEMs (particularly Barco) refuse to have them repaired.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 03-21-2016 11:43 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
if your OS drive craters, you have to buy an OS drive from them rather than just loading the OS.
And duh back to you sir. You only have to get it from GDC if you can't clone another drive... say if you are a single screen. The OS drive is divided into a number of partitions. You store other data on that same drive like back ups of older OS systems so you can immediately revert to one if need be. That is actually a nice feature I used twice or three times during the 8.xx update sequence. Anyway, I could still clone another good drive from another like GDC server in a multiplex, install in in the downed server, have GDC remote in to set the S/N then load in the setting that were saved on the booth computer and be back on the screen before you had your OS back on to a new set of drives. Cloning a full drive is quite easy and they are only 500 GB drives so go quickly. Even if we got both OS's back on at the same time you'd still be missing your media and spending another hour loading all that back on. I'd spend 30 seconds making up a new play list and bam hit the screen with the show. Of course I have never HAD to do this with a GDC, although I have tried cloning the drive and that is easy.

The age that many of these OS drives are now I will be cloning them as I go around and replacing them during minor tear downs of the older servers as well as replacing some of the fans.

Mark

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

- posted 03-21-2016 12:29 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Anyway, I could still clone another good drive from another like GDC server in a multiplex, install in in the downed server, have GDC remote in to set the S/N then load in the setting that were saved on the booth computer and be back on the screen before you had your OS back on to a new set of drives. Cloning a full drive is quite easy and they are only 500 GB drives so go quickly
Easy peasy.

So you have 2xUSB adaptors with you all the time to plug the HDD's into your computer and run, say, Clonezilla (*). Clearly the owner will be happy to lose another screen while you clone that HDD - oh wait, you never had such occurrence while other auditoria are playing, they are all idle for you to borrow the drive.
(*) super fast procedure as you will be cloning from USB to USB on the same computer. Even considering the max theoretical speed of a USB port (you see where I am going) of 480Mbit/s (60MB/s) that will take 142 minutes and during that time TWO auditoria will be unavailable.

Then GDC remotes in. Assuming GDC are available 24/7 (not an American company as far as I know) then that means that all your cinemas have remote access. No exceptions.

Obviously you have a stock of HDD's in your car and you are also available 24/7 to drive instantly (transporter?) to wherever is needed for that 5 minutes job.

If that happens to a single screen customer and your internet is down then I guess a GDC representative will be waiting for you at the cinema with an HDD?

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