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Topic: NEC NC2000C Randomly Shutting Down

Bob Ezra
Film Handler

Posts: 75
From: Carbondale, CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-17-2016 11:04 AM

In my case the 220 input to the ups comes via plug from MIT pedestal power dist unit .

Then there are the , not typical, male output plugs. 2 for the Doremi and 1 for the Barco electronics.

So a 220 receptacle would need to be installed to plug in a strip.

Could not find the tripplite model suggested by Steve.

So still wondering what power strip would work as a backup?

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 08-17-2016 11:07 AM

quote: Stefan Vogels
It is either cooldown or go to stand-by. It might be set to this last setting and so when the bulb fails the projector goes to standby.

If it is set to standby, I'd strongly suggest changing it to a cooldown (length depending on how big the bulb is, e.g. 5 mins for a smallish bulb, up to 15 for a 7kW). Killing the power to a bulb without cooling ventilation will destroy a bulb very effectively: best case scenario is flickery and envelope blackening, worst is kaboom.

I did have a problem a few months back caused by one of my co-workers forgetting to turn on the extract fan for an NC3200S. He ran the bulb with no air extraction for 4-5 hours before I arrived and discovered the booth like a sauna and the top of the case hot enough to fry bacon on. After that, the bulb kept going out randomly until it was replaced, but the projector head itself did not shut itself down.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-17-2016 11:36 AM

quote: Leo Enticknap
I did have a problem a few months back caused by one of my co-workers forgetting to turn on the extract fan for an NC3200S. He ran the bulb with no air extraction for 4-5 hours before I arrived and discovered the booth like a sauna and the top of the case hot enough to fry bacon on.

I'd say you have a somewhat dangerous issue with your NC3200S for sure. There is a thermal sensor in the stack of all NEC projectors that will kill the lamp ballast if the temperature goes up too high. Check your logs! When ever I get a call that a lamp goes out its always because the roof exhaust fan has died.

Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-17-2016 12:13 PM

I mistyped. It is an UL800CB https://www.tripplite.com/waber-by-tripp-lite-10-outlet-industrial-power-strip-15-ft-cord-large-plug-spacing~UL800CB15/

It is a 120V power strip, not a 220. I've gone back and forth on the 220 versus 120 thing. And while MOST things are wide-range power supplies (will run on just about any voltage/frequency) not all are or one would need adapters to plug them into 220...I've just settled on 120V for everything and step-up to 220 for things like the Barco projector (Christie and NEC will work with 120V UPSes).

Tripplite does have Transfer Switched PDUs:

http://www.tripplite.com/1.9kw-single-phase-ats-switched-pdu-120v-16-5-15-20r-2-l5-20p-5-20p-inputs-2-12ft-cords-1u-rack-mount~PDUMH20ATNET/

I've heard mixed on their reliability though.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 08-17-2016 12:16 PM

I did check the logs, and the bulb flameouts after it was cooked were not caused by an overheat: the bulb just went out. Once the bulb was replaced, the problem went away, so knock on wood, I think we got away without any projector damage.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-17-2016 12:59 PM

Still, My experience with a boat load of NEC's shows them all shutting down in 20 minutes or less when exhaust is left off. Even if just running a 2kw lamp.

Mark

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 08-17-2016 02:12 PM

This was a 3kW (though only running at about 50% power), and was still alight 4-5 hours later. As I say, thankfully, the damage was restricted to the bulb itself.

It's a relatively short and almost straight-up vertical duct from the top of the projector to the fan on the roof (about 4 feet to the outside world, and the projector has its own duct/fan - it doesn't go into a plenum), so maybe there's enough natural airflow there to have kept us out of some much more expensive trouble, thankfully.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-17-2016 04:11 PM

Yes, Thats almost like not having the duct connected at all. I have never seen any damage to any NEC lamphouse components from excessive heat. They all still look like new...

Mark

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 08-17-2016 06:22 PM

Shouldn't there be airflow sensors preventing the ignition of the bulb when the fan is not running - in EVERY projector? It's hard to take a 3kW (or even larger) bulb is running for 6 hours without cooling...

- Carsten

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Leslie Hartmier
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 100
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Registered: Jul 2012

posted 08-17-2016 07:54 PM

We had a similar problem using an NC1200C, and it did precisely the same thing - what was occurring in our case (no alarms, no reported errors in the logs), was that the LPS was starting to fail. It occurred twice, (first time, we considered it interesting, but it could have been anything, the second time, we started to look into it, but 'the third time' occurred, like, two days later, which made for an abrupt end to troubleshooting) then a couple days later, the LPS outright failed, which caused the projector to go into standby, after making a most disagreeable racket, tossing an error, then returning to standby, and looking remarkably innocent.

I can confirm that if the LPS has failed or is failing, and/or the communication cable for the LPS is disconnected or not completely in/got dislodged, the projector will have a fit, then will go to standby.

I do not know for certain if this is your problem, but it may be worthwhile to try it out.

One thing you might try if you have the option, is to swap the LPS between a known good projector to see if the problem travels. I have moved a 2kW LPSU into an NC2000C and a 4kW LPSU into an NC1200C (both are using a 2kW bulb) (note: at the time, NEC engineers exasperatedly told me that they wash their hands of such a stunt, but it should work (and it did)) to test. (I even left the 4kW LPSU in, until the replacement came in.)

Good luck!

Leslie

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-17-2016 08:22 PM

quote: Leslie Hartmier
the LPS outright failed, which caused the projector to go into standby, after making a most disagreeable racket, tossing an error, then returning to standby, and looking remarkably innocent.

NEC did have a bad run of LVPS on some early NC-1200 units. However, a bad igniter will also cause exactly the same symptoms with that odd sounding shutdown and the projector looking innocent when it's all over. Its such an odd sound that I doubt a Foley crew could even recreate it.

Mark

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 08-18-2016 05:56 AM

Try to record it next time. Could yield big money from the next StarWars sequel.

- Carsten

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-18-2016 06:02 AM

I'd always look at the logs. Put them in a spread sheet and graph the temps...you'll see pretty quickly when the exhaust failed and the projector really did "feel" it though it may not have gotten to the point it threw out an error code.

As for every projector having an air flow sensor...Only Christie 20 and 30 series and the Barco B series have them, that I'm aware. Barco's will put up a yellow tail light and complain on the optional touchpanel or Communicator but will let you still run. Christie will shut you down or prevent you from starting in the first place. The two biggest problem with Christie's method is:

1) If the switch bobbles in the slightest, it kills the lamp and won't turn it back on when the error clears so you run a show with out a lamp

2) Their switches fail. They are running very low current through these switches and will give false failures (same with the door switches). In this day an age, an electromechanical switch having to contend with ROHS probably isn't the best solution. But at least let your software have a suitable "Debounce" scheme to avoid nuisance trips.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 08-18-2016 07:11 AM

The Sony 5xx doesn't allow the bulb(s) to ignite when the airflow sensor isn't up. However, once the bulbs are lit, a fan failure doesn't switch off the bulbs, but issues a warning. Which makes some sense, I guess. I would then prefer the bulbs to switch off without airflow when a show/SPL has ended, also because some fan issues could be solved while the show is running.

- Carsten

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-18-2016 12:35 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
I'd always look at the logs.

Did that just last night after a customer notified me his new HVAC was now in and running and he wanted to know what the projector temps were running. This was one of my most troubled sites where they first lost a GDC server and then two QSC amplifiers because in the summer the booth would top out at 100 Fahrenheit. The new HVAC in this theater now has this booth running about 74 degrees and all projector temps are 20 degrees or more cooler then they were. I actually has the ICP in this place overheat and throw an error, projector didn't shut down though.

NEC has never used airflow switches, only temperature sensors in the stack and other locations through out the projector. I hated those air flow switches in the Christie projectors. I had too many a sail sucked right up the stack. This is an aspect Christie certainly could improve upon for sure. Switches are NOT fool proof and lad free switches do not like to reliably pass really low electrical currents.

Mark

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