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Author Topic: Cinelister for Doremi Server Lonny Jennings Film Handler Posts: 10 From: Boston, MA USA Registered: Feb 2000 posted 08-06-2016 10:14 PM                     I've done a couple of projects with the QSC Core 110F now and Brad is correct: it's a fantastic piece! I do mostly specialized designs and it really is amazing how much you can do with this one very reasonable priced unit. The 110F has a large number of analog inputs and outputs; none are Dataport so you'll need to go back to the old days and actually cut and strip wires for your connections to the amps. As Brad mentioned you can create your own GUI's that can control various audio processing functions within your design or utilize the GPIO's (16 each I's and O's) to effect changes or control external events. There's a free app for smartphones that gives you control of the unit via the custom GUI's you can create. I've created a GUI page that let's me call up pink noise on any or all channels from my phone via WiFi. There's even a RS-232C port to talk to external devices and, of course, you can communicate with external devices via IP. I'll be doing a regular multiplex soon and it's utilizing Core 110F's in the Atmos houses replacing Core 500's that were used in the last build. There's plenty of processing power in the 110f for this application. Brad: I had an idea on this subject that I'd like to suggest. How about a place on the Film-Tech website for people to post Q-Sys designs? That way people who aren't interested in getting completely up to speed could just download a design. It would probably require some understanding of the basics of the Q-Sys designer but, it might save some people a lot of time and effort. Kind of like open source software. What do you think?  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 08-07-2016 08:03 AM                     How do you solve the most basic application of a digital cinema installation with the 110F - 8 AES channels from a media block into the Core 110F? I am fascinated by the features of this device, but it comes with many features hardly any cinema installation needs (POTS/VOIP), but lacks important I/O like AES. Sure it can be added by using an external networked converter, but where is the real benefit for typical cinema auditoriums? You would need to beef the system up with Crestrons, external HDMI switches, audio converters, AES/SP-DIF bridges, decoders etc. I would always prefer an AP20 for typical cinema installations. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged System Notices Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi Posts: 215 Registered: Apr 2004 posted 10-23-2017 05:57 PM                 It has been 442 days since the last post.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 10-23-2017 05:57 PM                     QSC now launched a QSYS I/O interface dedicated to cinema applications, the DCIO/DYcIO-H. It offers AES, analog line, mic, and even HDMI with Dolby and DTS HD decoding, plus HI/VI, monitoring, some automation, through a QLAN interface to the QSYS core: https://www.qsc.com/cinema/products/processing/qsc-processors/q-sys/network-io-peripherals/dciodcio-h/ - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-23-2017 07:09 PM                     That could be a game changer. I wish that they had a version of the 110f with these features though. Some systems need not be 2-box solutions.  |  IP: Logged Magnus Eriksson Expert Film Handler Posts: 121 From: Stockholm, Hägersten, Sweden Registered: Jan 2011 posted 10-24-2017 01:34 AM                     Can it do Prologic on the line input? I know, an option from the stone age, but still useful. /M.E.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-24-2017 06:02 AM                     The current QSYS has a 2:4 decoder module (only shows up in the RHP if running in cinema mode). So, yes.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 10-24-2017 11:55 AM                     I don't understand the purpose of the HI, VI and monitor lines. Can't the I/O of a 110f be configured to do exactly the same? Wouldn't have been easier to manufacture a 111f with the AES inputs?  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 10-24-2017 02:09 PM                     I guess they aim at having central Q-SYS cores and only remote/booth interfacing. For booth local CPs, they have their traditional cinema QSC and USL processors. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 10-24-2017 04:01 PM                     Yeah, the concept is total centralization of your Q-Sys cores. The major problem I have with this though, is the possible impact during an outage of such a core. They're supposed to be able to operate in redundant failover mode, but this would also require your network to be redundant to make sense. Also, I've got some bad experiences with redundant systems in the past, primarily if one of the systems ends up in a failure mode that isn't recognized as being a failure by the other one. What I really would like to see is support for DTS:X. An affordable DTS:X "input" breakout, could really be a game changer for MDA in the cinema. It could also force Dolby to step up their game in regards to Dolby Atmos.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 10-24-2017 04:55 PM                     I see, so this is the cinema version of an I/O frame. Interesting but I still don't like the idea of multiple auditoria running on a single core.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 10-24-2017 05:31 PM                     Well, most cinemas run on a single power supply line ;-) The Q-SYS cores are used a lot in huge installations far beyond entertainment. I guess they don't expect them to fail easy. Then you can design-in redundancy.. I guess the benefit is not only in replacing x local CPs, but also many other functions. And it certainly is not for every cinema. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 10-25-2017 04:33 AM                     If you lose your mains, then you lose the whole cinema. Following your logic, then there is no point in having redundant power supplies as 'you only have one mains line!" But that is not my primary concern. My concerns are: 1. You'll need someone familiar with QSYS to work on the sound 2. If someone is working on sound in an auditorium, you are still connecting and tweaking a system which is driving the rest of the multiplex (see point 1). 3. If you need to amend your design, you can only do that when the WHOLE cinema is not showing movies 4. (This is a little silly, ok). If you lose the Core and somehow you lose the backup, then you'll need to re-do the sound in ALL screens! 5. Some newer sound processors feature advanced auto-EQ which may achieve better/faster results than a classic EQ. 6. You can only reboot the system when all auditorium are off screen 7. To have a redundant system you need twice as many switches and network wires. 8. Indeed you can create a cool UI for it. That means you'll need some display device to connect to it. Maybe a cheap android tablet - another thing that can fail or can lose its configuration etc. My point is: it's an interesting idea and I'd love to see that in action but how much money are we saving here and what are the advantages?  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 10-25-2017 05:30 AM                     I am not really defending the idea of a central audio processor, your points are all valid. I understand people find Q-SYS tempting for it's modularity and setup flexibility. The AP20 has most of the needed flexibility, but in an easier to use package. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-25-2017 08:53 AM                     I think a cost analysis needs to be done on the centralized processor versus islands. I think there can also be some logic into doing some centralizing. Let the big auditoria run as islands and the "move-over" houses be more centralized. Or, perhaps, break a 12-plex into two groups of 6, that sort of thing. As for updating a design affecting all cinemas...well, how often have you found you need to update a design, RIGHT NOW in a DSP system? Mind you, we are not talking about tuning, that is done on a live system anyway. We are talking about actual reconfiguring (the equivalent of rewiring a traditional system). Odds are, if there is a design flaw or update needed for a particular feature, then you'd want to do it to all of them anyway and I tend to do updates like that without anything on screen anyway. I see the DCIO box is something that mounts right where the projector is and that is it. You have short premade CAT cables to it for audio. If Blu-ray or other HDMI source is coming in, plug it into that and a short jumper to the projector and your sound is just about done. Put the DPA-Q amps where the speakers are so again, short wiring with the exception of a couple of CAT cables (and the DPA-Q amps are up to 8-channel now so you can knock out quite a bit with few boxes). As for GUI (or UCI, as they call it), you have options there. For traditional booths, touchpanel, for others create a UCI that any workstation on network can access and even have one for iOS devices so you have access there too. Remember, with Q-SYS you also get a bit of an automation system too so you could really develop these UCIs to be a low-cost user interface into the booth stuff. For small time basic 5.1/7.1, I think "canned" solutions using traditional DCinema sound processors (JSD-xx, CP750, DPM, DCP) with normal amplifiers/crossovers are going to be a cheaper collection of boxes though perhaps not necessarily the cheapest to install. I still think QSC needs to come out with a cinema specific core to avoid the 2-part system. The two pieces put Q-SYS significantly above canned solutions. Get rid of one box and you are likely in the middle of the pack but with significantly more possibilities.  |  IP: Logged

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