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Author Topic: Tripp-Lite Smart UPS troubleshooting Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-16-2018 10:36 AM                     See? The problem with Mark's plan is that you DID have to go down first. Our first step on addressing this problem was we used a power strip to plug into the UPS so only ONE cord had to be moved between the UPS and actual power rather than plugging several things in. But, we eventually expanded the role of the automation to allow remotely powering servers/projectors so while were at it, we added a transfer switch. The problem without the transfer switch is that the people have no idea what you are talking about when getting them to move a single power cord, let alone several. I don't think we could add $300/$500 to every screen just for a transfer switch without people balking a bit. They may opt for no UPS first.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-16-2018 01:10 PM                     Thats a lot of money on a ten or 12 plex for equipment that never gets used. Mark  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 04-16-2018 03:14 PM                     The interesting question is not the cost - you could easily set up a power panel with labeled connectors/cables. And if there is no one on site to recognize a power problem, what other type of issues are they able to solve? The trouble is - very often UPS and other associated gear like ATS cause more trouble that you'd have without them. So how much do you want to add to that system complexity? How much more do you want to spend to get equipment with that extra pinch of reliability? We may just be lucky over here with a mostly solid power network - but the only serious issues I ever had in my life was not power outages, but UPS malfunctioning or acting unexpectedly. Of course, some installations may be complicated and nested, and, in fact, it is usually too much effort to command someone to actually pull out a racked UPS in order so connect in- and outgoing power cables to save a show. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-16-2018 03:53 PM                       About half of the UPS I supplied have failed including one 220 Volts unit for a 2230. Made me reflect why I expected a $400 UPS to protect a multi Thousand Dollar unit.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-16-2018 04:28 PM                     What we've strived to reduce/eliminate are single point of failures. To that end, the transfer switch to the UPS. The UPS was put in to protect the sensitive gear. In the event of a power failure or even a mere brown out, the automation pauses the show since the server and projector electronics will be unaware of the power interruption. However, when the first UPS was the cause of the failure, we had to do either come up with a transfer switch or consider eliminating the UPS. The thing is, the UPS has been doing its job. We have lost a very low number of everything. We normally use the zero-transfer type double conversion UPSes (more than the $400 type Sam was just mentioning) so the sensitive equipment is separated from the power by a bit. From a support standpoint, being able to remotely power the projector and server was essentially a necessity (ever tried to update a Christie? Often you have to power cycle twice!). So we added a transfer switch in there at the same time and have yet to lose a show as a result. As we start to design implement QSYS systems in complexes, again, the question is...UPSes? Transfer Switches? UPSes have already shown themselves to be liabilities while being life-savers at the same time. So I'm thinking that putting them in as a set almost has to be a given if you don't want your backup being the cause of the problem. It is too bad that the UPS companies can't put the transfer switch in their UPS (when the unit fails, it switches back City Power. Note, there are some MANUAL transfer switches where the end user will get an LED indication of which source has power and one can select that...but again, that would require a show going down. At the heat of it, a transfer switch is nothing more than a double throw relay that can handle the current on both sets of contacts (watch out, some have drastically lower current capabilities on the NC side).  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-17-2018 11:30 AM                     Well, you have to actually have a failure in order to justify having that xtra stuff. As long as batteries are changed in a timely manner the things just don't fail. Sam, Not sure what kind of UPS's you are using but APC is particuluarly troublesome overall if thats what you are using. Transmitter guys hate, hate, hate them. All my installs have 220 volt Triplite UPS's except for the TMS's and NC-900's which all have 120 volt Triplite UPS's. Mark  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-17-2018 07:22 PM                       Most of my failures have been with Tripp Lite's bought about 6 or 7 years back. Only recently tied to fix them by changing batteries.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-17-2018 07:52 PM                     Yea, need to do batteries every 5 years for sure. The only one I had fail was because of some pretty old batteries. Mark  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-17-2018 08:58 PM                       The one I did try new batteries on did not work so gave up too easy.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-18-2018 07:15 PM                     It seems if a battery gets a shorted cell or two that it kills the ups. The battery circuits are almost always fused, so you can look for that. The Tripplites I use have colored automotive fuses soldered to the board where the cable for the battery connects to the main board. Mark  |  IP: Logged Barry Floyd Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1079 From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 04-20-2018 11:34 AM                        My problem ended up just being a pair of dead batteries. Found a set on Amazon for $39 with free shipping. Installed them last night and everything is back to working like it should. I probably need to go ahead and order a set for my other rack, since they are both the same age.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 04-22-2018 10:56 AM                    Bumping this back up with a question of my own. We're a screening room. We don't rack up that many hours. I have a Tripp Lite SU1500RTXL2UA "Smart Online" UPS which is a full time AC-DC-AC unit. I have it solely to isolate from possible power line glitches. It runs my Dolby DSS-200 server (24/7) and the electronics part of my NEC NC1200C projector (on and off as needed). Also the ethernet switch between projector and server, the few Watts that draws. We went digital in Sept. 2012 and I got the UPS in Feb. 2013. No issues. My question: As it's now been five years, should I replace the UPS batteries just because of their age? They've probably only ever cycled once and really don't have much to do but that doesn't mean their age could not present an issue in the future. Just because *I* don't think they should matter in this environment has no bearing on the reality. (Seems to me the UPS people, knowing many users use the full time UPSs for filtration only, ought to make a model with no batteries, maybe just a big capacitor bank but that's just me.)  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 04-22-2018 12:12 PM                        In my experience, UPS batteries typically last about 3 years (as noted by others in this thread). It doesn’t matter whether they’re ever actually used. They degrade over time. At 5 years, you should just replace them and be done with it. Does the UPS pass a self test that includes running on battery for a few minutes (with a load on it)?  |  IP: Logged Philip Jones Film Handler Posts: 90 From: England Registered: Dec 2011 posted 04-22-2018 02:00 PM                     This thread seems like as good a place as any for this query: We have an APC UPS which the server (DSS200) and projector (NEC2000) electronics are on. However we do suffer from brown-outs on a fairly regular basis (maybe once every other month on average over the year). When this happens it knocks out the lamp in the projector and then it goes into cool down mode and puts the projector into standby so we can't get things started again for roughly 8 minutes (5 minutes cool down and 3 minutes coming out of standby and reconnecting with the server). Even more annoyingly the server doesn't realise the lamp has gone off for around 30 seconds so the sound continues with no picture until we can press stop\pause. Is there any way round this? Ideally to keep the lamp on during these brownouts (we're talking literally the lights front of house dim\flicker and it's 50\50 to whether it will have knocked the xenon out) so the show isn't interrupted. Interestingly in our second auditorium the lamp almost always stays on. We have 3 phase supply though and it is on a different phase so I assume that phase isn't so susceptible to the blips for whatever reason.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 04-22-2018 02:19 PM                    Your first step would be to move the projector lamp to the more reliable phase! How long do the brownouts last? Is a large UPS for the lamp a possibility?  |  IP: Logged

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