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Author Topic: "Solo" projection problems leave movie fans in the dark Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-01-2018 03:10 PM                     Which movie theatre? There isn't a "typical" movie theatre and, in theory, any that are on VPF plans, they should be at DCI spec, as per contract so it should be the exact same level (within the tolerance of the spec).  |  IP: Logged Barry Floyd Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1079 From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 06-01-2018 03:39 PM                        We've had a couple of complaints about the darkness of it from just a couple of patrons. Being a drive-in and having to deal with ambient light from sources other than our own it can be a struggle. I checked our light level on Saturday, and the Barco communicator showed us to be around 12fl with a 4200 watt lamp in our 23B. Too bad the studios don't offer "drive-in prints" for DCP movies like they used to for 35mm. It would really help in cases like this.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-01-2018 04:45 PM                     Note, Communicator is only going to be as accurate as the person that calibrated it. And, it will be most accurate around the point of calibration. Naturally, it can't account for anything degrading the light after the sensor (which is at the fold-mirror) so any dust on the prism, lens and screen condition are not factored in. If you are having issues with dark scenes, I do really suggest lowering your gamma just enough until the problem subsides. Instead of 2.6, perhaps 2.4 or 2.3 will solve the problem. It will be just like getting a "drive-in print" again. Except you are customizing for the needs of YOUR theatre. With Barco, however, without the Post Production version, you can't create your own gamma files (LUT-DG) and the ICP software is no help there either (it was in series 1, oddly enough). However there are files available and if you want to experiment, email me and I'll get something to you. It won't break anything and you can always go back to factory.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 06-01-2018 05:08 PM                     12Fl at a drive in is actually real good. I take care of a couple of 32B's running 6500w bulbs in two drive-ins, and if they get 8 to 10 Fl, the picture looks real good.  |  IP: Logged Buck Wilson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 894 From: St. Joseph MO, USA Registered: Sep 2010 posted 06-01-2018 05:12 PM                     quote: quote: Mike Blakesley AMC said it had mandatory procedures in place at every theatre that prohibits 2D movies playing through a 3D lens. If this is true, then nobody, and I mean NOBODY in the tri-state region is following them. Yeah *technically* it's policy at Regal too.... But it just does not happen.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 06-01-2018 07:11 PM                        quote: Steve Guttag Wow, way to advocate for mediocrity. But seriously, what are the "real world" light levels? Have you compiled what the average real-world light level actually is? If not, how do you even create content for it? I'm not advocating for mediocrity. I'm simply pointing out that it exists, and that we have to deal with it. I wish that every cinemagoer was as discerning as Chapin, and voted with their credit card whenever they encountered a dim, blurry, and/or overly cropped picture. Far from advocating for mediocrity, I'm always trying gently to persuade my customers to make a small investment here or a strategic upgrade there, that will deliver a significant improvement in their picture and/or sound. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I don't. I agree that a large scale survey of real world light levels could potentially be very useful. If you sent someone into, say, 1,000 screens across the country, asked them to project a peak white DCP and took a reading, the results would be interesting, to put it mildly. I have a totally unscientific, gut feeling, based on all the theatres I've been into (either for work or as a guest or customer) in the six years since I moved to America, that the mean average from a digital projector would probably be around 10 to 12ft-l. I believe that the fact remains that by originating content that really needs the full 14 to look acceptable, even to an untrained eye, you're taking a significant risk.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-03-2018 09:39 AM                     Apparently this movie looks bad everywhere except in Dolbly Vision Theaters which are already extrenely dark. I saw a few minutes of it the other day and it looked really murky on a screen that normally has a nice bright picture. Disney really screwed up on this one letting it out this way and I can imagine the number of refunds being requested, especially at drive ins. NOt sure if it was shot this way, Arri Alexa's were used, or of this look was done in post. The DP is quite experienced, so I doubt he intended his latest job to look like crap. Mark  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-03-2018 10:32 PM                        Well I haven't had any brightness comments here yet, and no refund requests either. But it definitely has a darker-than-usual picture, especially for a Star Wars film.  |  IP: Logged Scott Jentsch Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1061 From: New Berlin, WI, USA Registered: Apr 2003 posted 06-04-2018 09:44 AM                        quote: Leo Enticknap What do you do - get preachy about enforcing technical standards that a lot of the industry can't afford to operate to, or master your content to look as good as it can in an imperfect world? This one is easy. Adhere to the standards that are in place. Anything else is mayhem because everyone is chasing subjective ideas of what will work. The industry would do well to make sure that it encouraged and promoted the use and adherence to standards of presentation. Only from a position of strength in that regard can exhibitors go to the studio/DP and say that a movie wasn't shot properly and it's the movie not the theater that is to blame for the poor presentation. Another example of an opportunity that NATO has to provide leadership and representation for its members to improve the position of the exhibition industry and position it in the best way to compete with its competitors for audience dollars and attention.  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 06-04-2018 10:19 AM                        Like Steve we make every attempt to design our systems to meet SMPTE/DCI/Industry standards and our approach is that any of our installs should look just as good as one of our screening setups. If the customer does not want to do things the right way we simply pass on the job. (unless it is a special venue type of thing where they require a different set of standards like an amusement park ride or museum display)  |  IP: Logged Fernando Caldeira Film Handler Posts: 45 From: Lisbon , Portugal Registered: Mar 2010 posted 06-04-2018 10:19 AM                        But shouldn´t the experimental stuff be in festivals and non comercial venues? Where you can dedicate time to try to find the best way to screen "dificult" movies and learn from that and use that knowledge to produce movies that always look good in the comercial side of things?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-04-2018 11:13 AM                     If the movie was tested in a room that met specifications (and it did), then there is nothing experimental about it. The thing is, the SMPTE specs allow for a +/- 3fL in the center (with the same percentages on the sides/corners). That is, one should be able to play the movie at 11fL and no critical detail should be lost. Possibly, they never checked the movie on the worst case theatre to verify that it was still watchable (just speculation). Sure, screening rooms will be 14fL +/- 1 (and more like +/- 0.5fL) but a theatre that meets specs should be able to show the movie and not lose critical data (sure, you'll lose some detail). Even recording studios have Yamaha NS-10s to simulate a "typical home speaker" of no particular quality to ensure that the mix will be acceptable on that sort of system too (ever notice that most every picture of a recording studio has those bookshelf speakers with the white woofers sitting atop the mix board riser)? https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-ns10-story However, I absolutely reject the notion that Hollywood should cater to the least common denominator. If you only put out 8fL, and the screen isn't obscenely huge, you probably shouldn't be showing any movies, Solo or otherwise. 14fL +/-3 is the spec in the center with a "generous" 70% requirement on the sides/corners. It isn't a hard spec to meet (with low/no gain screens).  |  IP: Logged

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