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Author Topic: Software DCP players for theater screenings - looking for advice and experiences Paul Gordon Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 580 From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Registered: Aug 2005 posted 10-31-2018 05:43 AM                        Of note DaVinci Resolve 15 plays back unencrypted DCPs with out any problem. You can also make them. The base version is free and the pro version is only $400 CND. Probably your best bang for your buck as it also can of course be used as a colour grader, non-linear editor and you can even do some film damage restoration on it (dust dusting etc...).  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 10-31-2018 07:43 AM                        quote: Karim Benmachiche I don't know the word in english... in german it's Verein. The British term is Film Society, though I haven't heard it used here since moving to the United States. In fact, I haven't encountered any totally volunteer-run movie theaters here at all: the more usual model for these venues seems to be a nonprofit organization with a small core of paid staff (sometimes only one or two), plus a group of volunteers around them to support them. Back to topic, if you are going to go the PC route, at least for now, the other thing to consider is audio. I don't know what processor you used for 35mm and/or if you still have it, but ideally you'll want an audio card (if the motherboard you're using does not have a suitable one onboard) that can give you the 5.1 or 7.1 channels in whatever form your processor can accept them. If the built-in audio card only does 2.0 L/R, that's no good. Probably the easiest is an HDMI output that will give you 48KHz LPCM on all channels embedded into the video, going to a 1 > 2 splitter, with one of the outputs going to the projector and the other to the audio processor. This would give you the option of using any audio processor from cheap (ish) consumer - e.g. a Denon or Yahama model at around the $500 mark - through to professional cinema. Analog out from the PC is a possibility, but brings with it potential balance, level and ground hum control issues.  |  IP: Logged Sam Cuthbert Film Handler Posts: 6 From: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Registered: Jun 2008 posted 10-31-2018 11:22 AM                    I suggest taking a very cautious approach to this. Having now interacted with two of these systems, one at a volunteer run film society type place and the other a brand new cinema that was sold this as their DCP system, both have bitten the bullet and replaced them. Volunteer cinema went with second hand Series 1 kit (there's lots of machines in the UK from the DSN rollout that are still working fine-ish) and the new cinema sold off their wildly expensive Barco AV projector and used the money plus other funds to buy a whole new Series 2 system. The reason both upgraded was not functionality or reliability but that distributors would not give either of these sites DCP's to run. They were both playing Art House/Rep films and just couldn't convince enough distributors to issue them keys for their software players. I would be asking every distributor I've worked with in the past few years (and the post production houses they work with like Deluxe, MPS etc) if they would be prepared to issue a key for a non DCI compliant DCP system before investing. I hope indie distributors will loosen up, I feel its encouraging to see several distributors who now have done away with KDMs, and I'm all for reducing the cost associated with DCP installation but from two hands on examples this year I've seen this isn't happening quickly. Good luck whatever route you go down and let us know how you get on!  |  IP: Logged Karim Benmachiche Film Handler Posts: 18 From: Lausanne, Vaud, Switzerland Registered: Oct 2018 posted 10-31-2018 04:43 PM                        Sam, thanks a lot for chiming in, this is really good to know. We're now waiting on several answers from distributors and other cinemas regarding the use of a non-DCI system. I will of course let you know how it goes, with the hope that others can benefit from our time spent! quote: Carsten Kurz Hmm. 6x4 is not easy to cover on a budget projectorwise if you are after a decent image quality... What do you have now? - Carsten Until now with the 5x3 screen we had a 9yo BenQ SP890 which is dying, and an Infocus IN5148HD on loan. With the new screen (actually, I don't know anything about it, it might end up smaller than 6x4. 6x4 is what we're paying raw on the screen material, after the tech measured the current screen and gave us a quote. it might end up something like 5.5x3.5), for now we're looking at the Panasonic PT-MZ770 (3LCD laser). quote: Leo Enticknap the other thing to consider is audio Audio processor will most likely be a second hand CP650 or datasat or similar, depending on what we can find, but yes, my intention was to use hdmi to output the sound from the computer either with a splitter, or directly into the processor (in case of a processor with a video pass-thru hdmi out for example). For now, audio is still secondary due to the urgency of replacing the projection system but it will be the next big question once the first one is resolved. Current system is not really a cinema system, it's a diy 3.1 system built with (quality) second hand concert gear. I would very much like to have a dedicated sound system for screenings only, and to separate the concert system altogether.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 10-31-2018 04:55 PM                     Do you want to keep 35mm capability? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Karim Benmachiche Film Handler Posts: 18 From: Lausanne, Vaud, Switzerland Registered: Oct 2018 posted 10-31-2018 05:10 PM                        The 35mm hasn't been hooked up in over 5 years, and the last time it was was just when I joined the committee, so I don't know how it works, especially regarding the sound. But yes, we are keeping the projector, also "just in case" we or some local festival has the use for it once. afaik it was projecting on the 5x3 screen  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 11-01-2018 04:50 PM                     A second hand JSD80 or Datasat XD10P is still a usable processor, even for a digital-only installation. However, they lack HDMI audio support, so, you would need some converter in-between. I equipped a small club-cinema with a Marantz 7.1 Surround-Receiver that offers multiple HDMI inputs (as well as S/P-DIF, TOSLINK, analog) and switching options. Some of these receivers offer preamp outputs for every channel, so you can hook up external amps as well. This setup works well (today, they play sound from a DCI server through it), although these receivers are not as straight to operate as real cinema processors and you have to keep a close eye on them, better hide the remote away and lock as many controls as possible. Again - try to keep the cost for an 'intermediate' projector as low as possible and try to aim for a second hand series 2 DCI system. We do use a Sony 515 4k system, and I know some small cinemas were able to install these with some funding, but I guess you won't find them second hand below 20.000€. Maybe you can find ways to import cheaper second hand gear from France, Germany or Austria. Don't know for North-Italy. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 11-02-2018 06:01 PM                        There are organizations (at least in the states I would imagine Europe would be the same) that rent servers and Media Blocks so you could always use the projector with "Alternative Content" any time and then rent in the server and media block when you need too. We handle some festivals that do this as well as others who rent the entire projector as well.  |  IP: Logged Karim Benmachiche Film Handler Posts: 18 From: Lausanne, Vaud, Switzerland Registered: Oct 2018 posted 12-12-2018 03:05 PM                        Hey all, So, about a month later we have replaced the screen (~5mx3m) and projector (3LCD Panasonic MZ770). We have contacted all the independent distributors we've worked with in recent times, and they have all assured us they would be ok to give us either unencrypted DCPs or have no problem giving us the key if we screen using NeoDCP. I purchased spare parts for a beast PC that we'll assemble ourselves, cost was kept <2000$. Only the audio question remains and I would like your advice. Thanks already Carsten for your post above. We will have 2 main sources: computer and bluray player. I see two possibilities: 1. Like it was suggested, send audio through hdmi. Downside: it's either an AP-20/25 (expensive) or some kind of home theater surround receiver (with potential operational issues). I want the system to be as straightforward in its usage as possible, so I don't think the surround receiver solution is a viable one. 2. Output using the digital outputs on the computer and bluray player. This would be toslink and coaxial. I saw the USL-JSD60 seems not too expensive and has both. What I am not sure, is whether it would be ok regarding the type of files we would receive. Is there a risk we could get files with only TrueHD or DTS-MA audio? My guess is no, but I just want to make sure. Let's face it, we'll probably have >90% of files (h264 or dcps), and <10% of physical mediums. And most likely 1% of 16/35mm (actually, the main art school just asked us if they could use our venue to screen in 16mm) - 16/35mm could be simply screened in stereo as it has been until now. The JSD60 seems like an easy choice, but I am not sure if I am missing something... Thanks for your opinions  |  IP: Logged Harold Hallikainen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 906 From: Denver, CO, USA Registered: Aug 2009 posted 12-12-2018 06:52 PM                        The JSD-60 will decide Dolby Digital and DTS coming in on Toslonk or S/PDIF. It does not use the katest bitstream, but I THINK the bitstreams are downward compatible. Also, if your player has a decoder and analog out you could drive the 6 channel analog input on yhe JSD-60. Harold  |  IP: Logged Harold Hallikainen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 906 From: Denver, CO, USA Registered: Aug 2009 posted 12-13-2018 12:00 AM                        I HATE typing on phones! What I said above, without the typos: The JSD-60 will decode Dolby Digital and DTS coming in on Toslink or S/PDIF. It does not use the latest bitstream, but I THINK the bitstreams are downward compatible. Also, if your player has a decoder and analog out you could drive the 6 channel analog input on the JSD-60. Harold  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 12-13-2018 08:36 AM                     Using HDMI audio has some benefit when a PC is used - as it inherently takes care of video/audio clock sync. Using separate devices for video and audio (even if the audio is digital as with TOSLINK or S/P-DIF) does not guarantee hard sync for long pieces. Harold - why isn't there a JSD60 with HDMI audio decoding...?! Well of course I can guess why, it's just a pity the JSD60 didn't make it towards HDMI audio. It would be such a great choice to have. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-13-2018 12:27 PM                     The JSD-60 was/is such a near-miss. It NEEDs two more digital audio channels to deal with the ADA stuff. It should be able to decode DCP 2.0 content without having to remap the world and yes, the HDMI decoder would have been sweet.  |  IP: Logged Harold Hallikainen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 906 From: Denver, CO, USA Registered: Aug 2009 posted 12-13-2018 04:54 PM                        I agree the JSD-60 is not optimum for every situation. When we designed it, the vast majority of auditoriums were 5.1, and we wanted to keep costs down. So, while the JSD-60 can handle 7.1, it then cannot do a D/A conversion of VI. We discussed adding the extra hardware, but could not justify it at that time. On HDMI, it's complicated and hard to make it work! Our thought was that the HDMI should go to the media block since that's where the video needs to go, and the media block has an AES/EBU audio path back to the sound processor. The CMS-2200, CMS-5000, and other media block/server systems have HDMI inputs that can route extracted audio to the AES/EBU outputs. Harold  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 12-13-2018 05:57 PM                        The problem in this case is that there is no media block: a software DCP player in a PC is being used. Therefore, you have no AES out for the DCP audio (unless you buy a phenomenally expensive sound card that has this feature), and are left with the choice of embedded HDMI audio, analog 7.1, TOSlink or co-axial S/PDIF. I don't know if the JSD-60 does, but the JSD-100 can handle 7.1 plus the ADA amenities (I don't know if these amenities are also a legal requirement in Switzerland, and if they're not, whether or not Karim wants to provide them anyways), and it has an analog 7.1 in via a DB25 connector, as well as AES, TOSlink and S/PDIF. If you don't want to get involved in the logistics of pushing compressed 7.1 through TOSlink or S/PDIF, you could use the analog for PC audio (you'd need a breakout cable, but those aren't hard to make or source), and an HDMI to AES converter for the BD player. The converter box would add a bit to the cost, though. Out of curiosity, can the software DCP player being used handle CCAPs, and if so, how does it send them to the transmitter? Can it see a USL infra-red transmitter or a Doremi Accesslink box on the management subnet using the PC's own NIC, in the same way that a regular DCP server does?  |  IP: Logged

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