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Author Topic: End Of Production GDC Models
Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-02-2018 08:39 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
This policy of the digital cinema equipment manufacturers is what I personally think will kill exhibition, not Netflix. It will be a death by a 1000 cuts. A server here, a projector there.
I've pretty much resigned to the idea that a projector is more like a lease, in that there's no point in considering it "paid for." I figure this theater will make a "projector payment" until it burns down, and that's the story. Just part of the business. If the time comes when we're "paid off," then I'll still make the payment into some sort of savings account.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 12-02-2018 09:21 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
This policy of the digital cinema equipment manufacturers is what I personally think will kill exhibition, not Netflix. It will be a death by a 1000 cuts.
This situation is something many of us in this forum predicted would happen back in the early 2000's. That was when the big movie studios were hard-selling (or rather forcing) digital projection upon commercial movie theaters. By the early 2000's we already had learned how disposable digital technology devices could be. Any device that had a longer than expected life could be turned into a door stop instantly if any component failed. These companies routinely stop making replacement parts for anything more than a few years old. That even goes for expensive devices like digital projectors.

Nevertheless the studios deliberately ram-rodded this stuff for the sole reason of saving millions of dollars on film print costs. They only cared about their bottom line, even if it forced the equivalent of an unfunded mandate upon theaters. This doesn't even get into the very questionable claims that digital had over film in terms of presentation quality.

We saw lots of movie theaters close in the digital conversion process. Many new theaters built for digital projection have their own flaws. Common-width screens are the norm, as if we're living in the 1980's when most movies were framed in 1.85:1 ratio. The problem is the vast majority of movies are framed in 'scope format, which means the movies are letter-boxed in most of these theaters. Worse yet, the industry decided to letter-box the 'scope format in the projectors, making 'scope the lowest resolution format. Add to that the goofs of many theaters who leave the 3D filters in place, softening an already low resolution (yet digital) image.

Aside from all the fundamental technical problems with d-cinema and the financial challenges faced by movie theaters, the streaming services like Netflix are posing their own dire threats to the movie industry. They're helping erode the theatrical release window even more. Conventional 2 hour theatrical releases have to follow the Save The Cat bible. Cable TV and streaming services have more creative freedom with their shows. They can develop less conventional plot lines and show more edgy product. There's no fear about something getting into NC-17 territory. The most fundamental shift is they're getting away from the conventional 2 hour format. A "movie" can now play at the duration needed (as long as the budget can allow it), be it 4 hours or 12 hours. Home viewers seem to love binge-watching these shows.

The commercial theater industry is being threatened with a death of 1000 cuts, but those cuts are coming from multiple culprits from within the theatrical industry and outside of it.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

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From: Loma Linda, CA
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 - posted 12-02-2018 11:02 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
We are coming up on 10-years from when the series 2 systems went in.
Which means that the certificate batteries on ICPs - the ones that are soldered to the terminals and are not replaceable, and which are said to have a 10-year lifespan - are about to start dying in significant numbers, leaving the owners of the projectors in which they're installed with a $5k bill for a new ICP.

Yes, in the context of the overall running costs of a theater, $5k every 10 years is not much, but it does annoy me that these components were deliberately designed to be disposable like that. If IMBs are allowed to be designed to have user-replaceable certificate batteries, I fail to see why ICPs can't be.

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Tom Bert
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 134
From: Belgium
Registered: Apr 2010


 - posted 12-03-2018 04:33 AM      Profile for Tom Bert   Email Tom Bert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
the SR1000 (the new kid on the block that can either function as a stand-alone server with the Enterprise storage or function as a streaming server with a 1TB cache drive from a central storage unit (only good up to 2K)
No 4K(-compatible) version of the SR1000?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-03-2018 07:41 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not at this time (4K version of the SR1000). I'm not a spokesman for GDC or any other manufacturer so I cannot comment on any future plans.

From a reliability standpoint, the changeable certificate battery has shown itself to be dodgy. Dolby, eventually, switched the CAT745 to a solder-in. Personally, what I think these people could have done was have a super-cap paralleled with a changeable battery or batteries such that the battery was only on-line if the super-cap drained.

As for the $5K fee, that is the projector company's choice. It isn't like THEY can't change the battery and put in a new certificate for a nominal fee. In fact, that is what I think they SHOULD do. They choose to tell you to buy a new expensive part (or their new series 3 server/ICP system. Having to pay $5000 for a $2.00 battery and some labor is absurd. Then again, Barco's 90-day parts warranty is absurd too. As is the policy of refusing to repair Enigma modules (out of warranty). Just more of the 1000 cuts.

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

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From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 12-03-2018 08:30 AM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You don't get a "new" ICP with the ICMP, you remove the ICP, the ICMP replaces it as well as your SDI input card or IMB. So you do end up with a spare ICP to use elsewhere at least.
Note that the ICMP changes a few things: I believe it disables the CCB's DVI ports to use the internal circuitry for its own HDMI/DP ports. 4K and 4:4:4 3D playback are native. Server control is via the Barco Commander program on a Barco touchpanel or on a PC.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
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 - posted 12-03-2018 09:26 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Dave Macaulay
You don't get a "new" ICP with the ICMP
Well, you do ;-) That's the ICxP in the ICMP ;-)

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-03-2018 10:05 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave is correct, the DVI ports are non-functional after the ICMP BUT you get two new HDMI 2.0 input ports.

The ICMP is not an exact replacement to the ICP but it is close. Note, you can use the ICP/Enigma program to talk with the ICMP still. For those that use Anamorphic lenses, the ICMP doesn't do "anamorphic factor." So if you do have an anamorphic lens, and swap to an ICMP, the anamorphic lens will not longer work (the image won't be expanded vertically by 1.25X).

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-03-2018 11:34 AM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tom Bert
No 4K(-compatible) version of the SR1000?
But the GDC website says it's "[t]he cutting-edge and future-proof IMB that exhibitors have been waiting for!"

[Devil]

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

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From: Lakeport, CA USA
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 - posted 12-03-2018 04:26 PM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our theatre in Paradise is likely to not have power for several months after the fire, and likely won't be open for a couple years. I'm guessing we should just assume the ICP boards are going to wind up bricked. As it is the theatre has already been without power for almost a month.

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

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From: Toronto, Canada
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 - posted 12-03-2018 04:59 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, you still don't get a "new ICP", you get a card that includes the ICP functionality.
The ICP will be OK with no power for quite a while, but if you use SDI input the link decryptor has about a 6 mo battery life. Worth taking it out and charging it (you can buy a charger kit for A LOT less than a new module) or find a way to power up the projector for a few hours. A new module is $$$$ and it's non repairable.

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Leo Enticknap
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From: Loma Linda, CA
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 - posted 12-03-2018 05:23 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Justin Hamaker
Our theatre in Paradise is likely to not have power for several months after the fire, and likely won't be open for a couple years. I'm guessing we should just assume the ICP boards are going to wind up bricked. As it is the theatre has already been without power for almost a month.
I would be more concerned about the cert batteries in the media blocks than the ICPs. At a training school I went to at one of the major manufacturers, I was told that the cert battery soldered onto the ICP is supposed to last for ten years. When I asked if that was ten years on the shelf or ten years assuming a typical usage pattern (i.e. the ICP has power for about 12 hours out of every 24), the trainer said that he didn't know, but guessed the latter.

So it's really going to depend on how old your ICPs were when the fire happened, and in any case, there is nothing you can do about it. Agreed that it would be prudent to factor in new ICPs into your insurance claim.

IMBs are more of a concern, and there, you can do something. The shortest lived are GDCs: IMHO, on the shelf, you're not safe leaving them for more than a year. Others that I know of have shelf lives claimed at between three and eight years. If you can get access to the building, I would certainly suggest replacing all the media block and/or IMB batteries as soon as you are able to.

Enigma cards are only safe for about a month without power. If you have any of those, all I can suggest there is to get them to another site that uses them, and swap them in and out with the existing ones on a monthly cycle. There is a two-pin header on the boards that you can apply 12v to to charge them outside of a projector, if you can get hold of a connector and hook it to a wall wart 12v power supply.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
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 - posted 12-03-2018 05:36 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Justin Hamaker
Our theatre in Paradise is likely to not have power for several months after the fire, and likely won't be open for a couple years. I'm guessing we should just assume the ICP boards are going to wind up bricked. As it is the theatre has already been without power for almost a month.
So - what are your plans in general for this equipment, I mean, you do not plan to leave them sitting around until it reopens?
I'd get it out and store it in another location that allows to power them up regularly.

- Carsten

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

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From: Lakeport, CA USA
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 - posted 12-03-2018 08:32 PM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Carsten Kurz
So - what are your plans in general for this equipment, I mean, you do not plan to leave them sitting around until it reopens?
We aren't that far along in planning yet. They haven't even opened up the town so we can get back in and assess the condition of the theatre. Most likely we are going to have a service come in and do a very detailed cleaning to deal with any smoke and/or ash that got into the equipment. It's possible we will have power on in the theatre while it's closed, which would allow us to periodically power on the equipment. This warranty issue with the GDC servers is concerning because we will clearly be past that date before we reopen - likely before we even could reopen.

The owner of the company is on the town council in Paradise, so he has been busy dealing with city issues as well as his own personal and business issues. I haven't talked to him for more than 10 minutes since the fires, so there hasn't been a chance to really discuss the long term plans. I don't know if he is looking at completely mothballing the theatre for a couple years, or if he is looking at getting it back to functional as soon as possible so we could at least use the building when an opportunity arises. Even if we opt to mothball, I suspect the power will be kept on so we can monitor with security cameras and do anything else that needs to be done.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-04-2018 04:29 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Justin Hamaker
I'm guessing we should just assume the ICP boards are going to wind up bricked.
Well, they won't be bricked if you changed the certificate batteries in the IMB's. If you have not changed them you still can. You should also change the battery in the ICP at the same time. Frankly, I'd be buying a 7.5kw+ generator to use to back feed into your main panel, and then go power up the booth lights and say two projection systems at a time, each for an hour a month. That generator will be a lot less money than all new ICP's and Servers. No real need to run the lamps. I have done this before where a theater was going to be demolished and we wanted the original lighting powered up to take pictures. That's all it takes. And change those batteries if you haven't!

Regarding the end of production, I think that GDC will be able to supply parts to keep them going for at least several years yet. There are going to be a lot of older servers traded in to get the new ones, and they will likely recycle those parts. The Motherboard is still being made and there is no issue getting hard drives. Dolbly never offered a trade in on any of their products.

Mark

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