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Author Topic: DSS-200 Degraded Array Question
Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 07-24-2019 12:15 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
QSC CMS-5000 uses SSDs, and, consequently, offers a 2.5/5/10G ingest port. Up to 600MBit/s J2K decoding. Add conventional audio + ATMOS/DTS-X playout and SSDs become quite necessary for a three/four drive RAID.

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 07-24-2019 02:02 PM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Marcel Birgelen
One advantage though is, that with SSDs you have less
to worry about bandwidth problems

Oh, geez- - I long for the days when The Studios would send me both DCP
& a 35mm print for these press screenings. I never had bandwidth problems
then, either. (and sometimes they'd even let me choose which one to play [Smile] )

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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-24-2019 05:29 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can you just play the movie off of a CRU drive if it comes that way?

(Do advance screenings get regular DCPs on CRU drives or special ones on USB drives? I've not done this sort of thing since everything came on film.)

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 07-24-2019 06:04 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some servers allow to play DCPs right off CRU or even USB drives. It's not recommended, since you omit the content checking and validation of a full ingest, but it works. I remember that one cinema in Ireland I regularly visit plays their weekly arthouse series always directly from CRU, they don't want to spend the extra ingest time for a single screening.

- Carsten

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-24-2019 06:16 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Servers that I know can do it are any Dolby DSS server (DSS220 must use an ESATA cable, not USB). GDC servers with CRU bay (SX2100, SX2001, SX2000AR), Barco ICMP and the Dolby IMS3000.

Doremi has their "P'Ingest" but that does load the content on the server so it doesn't count (you also have to give it a 15+ minute head start).

The GDC servers I'm not sure about are the SX3000/SX4000 with an Enterprise Storage Plus. They would need two ESATA ports on each end (one for playing content off of the RAID and one for the CRU.

The IMS3000 and ICMP play off of USB3.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-25-2019 06:38 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
SX-3000 has three eSATA ports, but only one can be selected at any given time and the USB is really nbot quite a USB-3.But the current CRU bays are eSATA, USB-3 and FW800. SO the bay is at least capable of direct playback. I see CRU's actually going away pretty soon for the most part anyway. Satellite delivery is quickly becomming the norm, even with my customers.

Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
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 - posted 07-25-2019 06:40 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The SX3000 will play off a cru drive either with the Enterprise Plus or with a mobile one plugged into the Esata port

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 07-25-2019 09:15 AM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott Norwood
Can you just play the movie off of a CRU drive if it comes that way?

(Do advance screenings get regular DCPs on CRU drives or special
ones on USB drives?

What I'm mostly involved with are press & industry screenings which
are not open to the general public, and in fact from which the public
is sometimes specifically excluded. (So if a journalist or sound-tech,
or someone brings a guest who is not a card carrying member of the
press or SAG/AFTRA/DGA or IATSE, they don't get in)

But to answer your question, Scott, 95% of the material arrives on
standard CRU drives, although the drives & KDMS are sometimes
not booked or shipped through standard distribution channels but
come from some publicity arm or the studio instead.

Sometimes the drives I get were produced before the ones that
are mass produced for theatrical distribution, so they arrive with
hand-written labels, or labels different than the ones that will go
to the theaters. The drives may also contain a pre-show slide or
even a short intro from the film-maker that the studio or publicity
company wants us to put on screen before the show.

I get most of these drives in plenty of time to ingest before a
screening, but sometimes because they are still 'tweaking' things
in post production or for some other reason the film-maker or
publicity agent will hand-carry it to the event, and I will have to
do a 'live-play' if I don't have time to ingest. I make sure the
client is aware of the risks of doing that, but I've never had any
glitches while doing a live play, usually from a DSS-200.
(Perhaps it's partly because most of these drives I get are
usually brand new & not "recycled" ones?)

Some exceptions to the 'standard ingest & playback' have been:
> One of the larger places work has direct hi-speed fiber connections
to some of the studios down in LA, and I've done one or two screenings
where they were literally still working post on post production the night
before the press event, and so we got the flick by high-speed transfer.
> Also, and again because we were doing a screening where the movie
was still undergoing post production, we did the screenings direct from
the DCDM 'work print'. The DCDM is on a standard CRU drive, and the
server it plays on looks exactly like a DSS-200, except the face plate
is a totally different color. (And of course there are internal technical
differences, since you can't play a DCDM DCP on a standard server)
> For one screening that was booked at the last minute, the film-maker
realized he had brought the wrong version of the DCP with him and did
not want to screen that one. But he did have the correct version on
an HDCAM tape with Dolby E sound with him and I wound up running
the show off of that.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

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From: Music City
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 - posted 07-25-2019 11:22 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Gordon McLeod
The SX3000 will play off a cru drive either with the Enterprise Plus or with a mobile one plugged into the Esata port

Yes, as long as you have a later eSATA eqipped CRU bay. Early on, not all bays had eSATA, just USB and regular SATA. Now for some reason they have added Firewire 800. Talk about adding an obsolete connection system...

Mark

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Greg Routenburg
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 178
From: Toronto, ON, Canada
Registered: May 2003


 - posted 07-25-2019 03:37 PM      Profile for Greg Routenburg   Email Greg Routenburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone know if there's an official reason why Doremi/Dolby has never incorporated a "Live Play" feature on their ShowVault-IMB line of servers? The P-Ingest thing is pretty useless if you're trying to save a show if the content arrives through the door at the last minute.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

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From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 07-25-2019 05:29 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you were going to replace all four drives is it better replace all at once, reload software, and then content? Or replace one at a time, letting it rebuild each time. Does it work out the same in the end?

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 07-25-2019 05:47 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Replace all four drives, do a clean install of the software with the current version (4.9.1.22, assuming that, if you're using the cat862, the projector accepts TLS link encryption), and if you're using a cat862, a "reinstall all components" reinstallation of the media block firmware, too. Take the opportunity to give the case a good cleanout, replace the CMOS battery, and check the fans for any worn bearings, while you're at it. You will then effectively have a new server.

Of course it's important to make a careful note of any configuration settings (ctrl+alt+F1, then login as config) and Show Manager settings, including automation cues, before you proceed, so you can reconstruct them on the fresh installation. You'll also want to "outgest" any content that you do not have available for reingestion on external drives.

RAID drives are a bit like car tires - I would always suggest replacing the complete set at once if you can, so that wear is even (unlike car tires, though, you don't need to rotate them!). Otherwise, you're worrying about some of the drives having done fewer hours than others, which can be a pain to keep track of.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-25-2019 10:25 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To a degree, Greg, I suspect that Doremi's issue with "live-play" was probably baked into the system from the get-go and without a work around on how to stream the data with the available hardware.

P'ingest works for many as you only need a 15-minute head start so if the drive walks in the door, stick it in and you are only waiting 15 minutes or so instead of the full ingest duration. I'm not defending it and I don't consider that to be an actual live-play (because it isn't).

By far the most flexible on that are the Dolby DSS servers...play off the drive, transfer content at full speed to the RAID...whatever you want to do.

I haven't played with the IMS3000 that much but the ICMP seems pretty robust on its Play Now feature. USB3.0 seems plenty fast enough. It even works on USB2 though I suspect if I had a longer piece, there would have been underflows.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
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 - posted 07-26-2019 03:22 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
By far the most flexible on that are the Dolby DSS servers...play off the drive, transfer content at full speed to the RAID...whatever you want to do.


Not quite.... No eSATA.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-26-2019 03:54 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No need...they have a CRU bay. The DSS220 doesn't have a CRU bay but DOES have eSATA on front and rear for external.

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