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Author Topic: NEC NC900 IMS Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-17-2019 02:07 PM                     quote: Leo Enticknap Stories like this are precisely why Richard and many others prefer to take the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach to software and firmware updating. And not ever doing updates incrementally and then jumping to the front of the line is exactly why all the media blocks failed there after. Again, GDC even agreed with that. This "if it ain't broke don't fix it" idea is a fallacy that was well proven in this theater. Had this theater had the once or twice twice yearly updates done, they likely would not have lost any media blocks. And technically all six of their systems were all of a sudden broken because they were faced with having to play back SMPTE content and could not. And yes, they were warned about it several times over the years. Anyway, all my customers that had the once or twice yearly updates have some dam relaible systems that have never given them trouble. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-17-2019 07:28 PM                     That speaks more to GDC's failed design than to someone holding off on updating. If a system requires stepping through versions to be able to get to the desired version, then it would have been a simple matter for the updating software to check the current version and then decline to update. Dolby did require that one step through the first DCI compliant version (4.4) before going to any later versions BUT they include that update and the system can perform that update and then immediately go to the desired one. Christie projectors have specific limitations on their updates and state what version you have to be on in order to perform the update so one may indeed have to perform multiple updates to get to a desired/needed version. NEC is a bit more flaky but one can normally move anywhere within a full version number safely It SHOULD be able to go from all but the earliest versions to current but it is safer to step through each full version before moving to current. I think one reason is that the ICP has specific requirements on getting to version 4.x so you have to have the ICP on the right version first. It has been so long since I moved an ICP from version 3, my memory is less clear but I recall that one really did want to be on the last version of ICP 3 before moving to 4 and it is always a good idea on the ICP when moving full versions to run the pre-installation first. The NEC updater will do this automatically. Barco can go from any version to any version as it does its updates in "steps" anyway so it will go through as many steps as needed to incrementally put the projector on the new version. The ICP is kept separate, unlike the other two projectors, so one has to do the ICP updating separately and again, I recommend never moving more than one full version and always using the pre-installation version on each full version jump. Moving to version 4 can be rough. Furthermore, any of the lower versions of the ICP program will corrupt an ICP so moving to version 4 is a very good idea. 4.5.454 has been current for a LONG time and is quite stable.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-18-2019 09:50 AM                     No, not at all Steve. If you recall I had no other failed media blocks out of the other 337 GDC based systems I installed. In fact they are all still running to this day except for three very early servers that were traded in recetly and replaced with SR-1000's. The failures all being on one place and occuring after the 8.XX upgrade says a whole lot about not doing progressive updating. FWIW The insides of GDC's media block is almost the same as the inside of Dolby's media block, right down to the chips ustilized. I have pictures of both of them. There are only so many ways this can be done after all. The main difference is in the firmware thats doing it via the exact same FPGA chips. I have had approximately five GDC failures associated with certificate batteries because no one knew about the three year life of them, one NIC failure on an SX-3000, and one GDC motherboard failure. In fact out of all those systems only one OS drive has ever failed to this day. Thats pretty dam good. Mark Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-18-2019 11:02 AM                     Blah, blah, blah BS Mark. The failure rate of a CAT862 to a GDC mediablock is somewhere on a 20:1 against the GDC. I've had to retire exactly one CAT862, thus far (only shows White screen now...the server was converted to a DSL200 and lives on to this day). Conversely, I had yet another GDC mediablock die only 2-weeks ago. Your equating mediblocks is like equating cars because they both have four rubber wheels and there is only but so many ways you can build a car to achieve similar results. Oh and Dolby fully supported their mediablock 3.5 years after discontinuation, GDC only supported theirs for about 6-months and a full-year on the HFR IMB (SX-2000AR system). That is to say, GDC will honor its 3-year warranty on new servers but as far as repairing or offering an extended warranty on existing systems, nope 6 months on some, a year on others and then buy new with a discount. And now they they just "nag" the user about being out of warranty unless they pay the shake-down money for possible, but not guaranteed, software updates. In any event, if a software update needs to step through versions (Regardless of who is writing it for what product), then I think it should be incumbent on the software to check to see if a prerequisite is met.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-18-2019 01:28 PM                     I have not needed any support, nor do I anticipate needing any except probably at the one site. What this has essentially shown me is that GDC media blocks are indeed as reliable as Dolby. BTW: I know of three CAT 862's that have failed. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-18-2019 04:20 PM                     Only in your small world Mark. I doubt you get anyone that doesn't work at GDC to back up your statements. I've had at least half (if not more) of the GDC mediablocks (including original, SX2000AR and SX3000) fail to the point of replacement. I've had three CAT862s out of nearly 200 fail of which two have been repaired and still run to this day and one, as mentioned, has been retired. It really is a 20:1 ratio on the GDC failure rate. Oh...and no batteries on the CAT862 to contend with. CAT745s have not fared as well. I've had something like 3 or 4 fail and need repairs and while we are talking about similar numbers as the CAT862, the quantity of those I have in are MUCH lower than the CAT862. We have been proactive in getting them converted over to the 10-year battery too...which Dolby will still do and for a rather low cost.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-18-2019 06:50 PM                     Well, you are welcome to poll my customers. At least several of them are on this forum from time to time. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-19-2019 12:52 AM                     By all means...let them speak. I know Mike had to junk his original GDC server.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-19-2019 12:48 PM                        FWIW, the consensus was that our server failure was probably caused by a power spike after an electrical storm - we upgraded to a media block via an insurance settlement. (Yes, we have the system on a UPS, but this was a pretty potent storm -- it also took out the entire phone system at my day job, and it is on a UPS too.)  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-19-2019 04:39 PM                     Thats pretty mmuch how I remember it too... It sorta died at the hand of God . But I honestly don't know how many insurance companies would cover that sort of thing. Does this company also sell car insurance? Mark  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-19-2019 05:22 PM                        It's a business interruption policy, it's part of our overall policy. It's pretty limited but it does cover projection equipment since that's "mission critical."  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-19-2019 08:13 PM                     Thats awesome!  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-20-2019 02:45 PM                     Mike, I was at a theater in St George, Utah working in the booth at the time that was struck by lightening. It took the ballast out in the then nearly brand new NC-2000 that was closest to the area of the sidewalk outside the theater that was hit. I'd estimate it was about 20 feet from the strike point. It didn't die right away, but it did about three or four days later. Mark  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 08-20-2019 07:58 PM                     Equipment exposed to lightning and still operating is called "Walking Dead!" It WILL fail at some recent time and very unpredictably. All of the equipment manufacturers that I have worked with will not repair nor guarantee the operation of equipment exposed to lightning or other very high voltage discharge conditions.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-20-2019 10:57 PM                        Yep that's why we have our pretty-expensive UPS device protecting all our stuff. Between my house and two jobs, I think we own about a dozen of the things, but the one at the theatre is the most elaborate...go figure.  |  IP: Logged

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