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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Mummy Returns
Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-10-2001 09:37 AM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I personally would not say that "The Mummy Returns" is crap. Many of my friends have enjoyed watching the first one on several occasions and enjoyed it, and most of these same friends all say that they liked the second one better than the first one, and I agree with them. I expect to be showing this movie to these same friends on several occasions whenever it makes its way to DVD. This is definitely not a "crap" movie to most people, although you're entitled to your opinion (and I'm not criticizing you for not liking it). I often disagree with the majority on opinions of movies myself.

Elaborate on what you didn't like about it, Brad. It may be an interesting discussion. I know it had a lot of unbelievable, silly things, but to me, that's what made it enjoyable. A lot of the things put into the movie that were supposed to be suspenseful or scary probably came across as funny to many people.

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Dwayne Caldwell
Master Film Handler

Posts: 323
From: Rockwall, TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 05-11-2001 02:05 AM      Profile for Dwayne Caldwell   Email Dwayne Caldwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A FEW SPOILERS.

I personally thought Mummy Returns was crap. True, I enjoyed some of it, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it was better than the first. The CGI was what really killed it for me. Especially the Rock at the end. That was just bad. And their was just too much action going on. Like I've said time and again, I'm a die hard action freak. But there comes a point and Mummy Returns grossly exceeded it.

As I said before, there were some scenes I liked. Mainly scenes involving the O'Connell kid with the Black Man. I just really thought the screen time they had was funny for some strange reason. I also liked the cat fights between Nefertiti (Evie) and Anck-Su-Namun. But the thing with the jet powered balloon was stupid (and did they ever mention where the guy got the gas from to make it fly again?), and the showdown among Rick, Im-Ho-Tep, and the Scorpion King bored me because by that point I was desenitized by all the action leading to the finale.

But I will admit I thought it was cool that this movie should beat out a record previously held by Phantom Menace. Especially since there was little hype for this thing in comparsion to Episode 1. And to think of the futility of all those Star Wars fans waiting outside the theatres for a month. It just makes me laugh and laugh.

------------------
The man with the magic hands.


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-11-2001 02:22 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
You are bringing up bad memories Evans. This movie was just stupid and had a poorly mixed soundtrack like the first one (although not quite as bad as the first). It was stupid, stupid, stupid. Very little was believeable and the action never let up. I was yawning after awhile and just plain bored with all of the fighting. That director needs to slow it down every once in awhile and hire him a good sound mixer if he does a third Mummy movie. The Scorpion King at the end has GOT to be the worst cgi ever put into a movie to date. How can anyone watch such bad animation without laughing? I've fairly successfully blocked out most of the movie, so I don't remember specific instances right off hand and I don't want to either. This movie was just bad.

By the way, the note in the film cans said "The Rock says to turn it up." How lame is that? I ended up having to play this movie about 3db lower than everything else and it still assaults the ears.


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-11-2001 04:24 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If The Rock says turn it up then you'd better do it right now.

Brad, I don't know if you remember, but you actually got up and left during the movie and eventually meandered back in. I bet watching the platters spin was more entertaining. I never really gave it a thought about having too much action, but that is a really good point. I also was bored during the last digital battle at the end. There was absolutely no emotional involvement in the movie as far as the characters were concerned, meaning you really didn't care about them like you would in a real Indy Jones movie or something good. There was also no intelligence in the script to get the brain cells moving. This movie just asks that you sit, watch (with mouth agape, drool optional) and admire the fact that The Rock is in a movie.

Wow.

The Rock. Amazing. We have been blessed to have him on such a large screen.

Does anyone actually care about The Rock? Really!


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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-11-2001 09:24 AM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, I admit that "The Rock" was bad and I found the poor rendition of it funny which took away any suspense or concern for its victims that one might have ordinarily had. Nearly everything was that way in the movie. Everything came across as "We made it bad to be funny on purpose" which is probably not what was intended.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-12-2001 04:41 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I haven't seen "The Mummy Returns" yet, but I do want to cash in that free movie ticket that came with "The Mummy" Ultimate Edition DVD. Unfortunately, the Hollywood Theaters Cache 8 (a.k.a the "Crap 8") is playing it here in Lawton. If I want to see it at a good theater, I'll have to drive to Oklahoma City or Wichita Falls.

From the posts here alone, this looks like a film the viewer will either like or hate with no in between "it was okay" kind of reaction. I hope I am able to enjoy it, but I do have concerns about the cutesy kid and the obviously crude, lower cost CGI renderings.

With CGI stuff, the movie studios really need to revisit their standards on what is acceptable. Back in the early 1990s when CGI was in its infancy, most 35mm renderings were done at 4000 lines of resolution. Now just about all CGI work in movies is done at only 2000 lines. Why? Cost cutting. The studios put everything out to bid and award visual effects sequence job contracts to those studios who claim the lowest cost and quickest turnaround time. Speed and low cost equals low quality 2000 line renderings. That crap is not acceptablbe quality for any kind of 35mm still work. 4K is the bare minimum. Don't these filmmakers realize just how cartoony their CGI graphics will look on future higher-def video formats? They could at least be rendering at levels closer to what 35mm film has the capacity to hold.

I also don't understand all this 2K low-ball rendering use since computer systems are so much more powerful now. Rendering software is more adept and tuned to large scale symmetric multiprocesssing and distributed rendering. Seven years ago, it might take a rendering farm weeks to do a CGI sequence in a radiosity rendering. Now the same move takes under 1 day.

I hope some of the movie producers and visual effects people out there are reading these reactions to just how fake some of the CGI stuff looks in movies. If The Rock's CGI character looks as fake as people say he does in "The Mummy Returns," I'm going to be laughing.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-12-2001 06:31 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh you will laugh. Speaking of poor CGI, I can't believe that Perfect Storm was nominated for effects. Those had to be some of the worst water effects I have ever seen in my entire life.

Movies like Toy Story definitely seem to be rendered at 4k if not higher. From what I hear, though, they re-rendered it at a much lower resolution for video. Why they would do this instead of just transferring the print is beyond me.


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-12-2001 11:27 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's something I noticed: For the first closeup shot of any CGI effect they rendered the character (or object) at a higher resolution but this shot only lasted for a second or less. Then for all the remaining shots of the effect it was rendered at a lower resolution. Usually it was faster action in the second shot as well.

It seems to me that this was a way to "cheap-out" on the effeects a bit.
When I said, earlier, that I liked the effects I was talking mostly about the "subject" of the scene (eg: The Rock's character being made to look like a Sinbad movie.) On further viewings I did notice the finer details more.

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Aaron Haney
Master Film Handler

Posts: 265
From: Cupertino, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 05-13-2001 12:12 PM      Profile for Aaron Haney   Email Aaron Haney   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe wrote:

quote:
Movies like Toy Story definitely seem to be rendered at 4k if not higher. From what I hear, though, they re-rendered it at a much lower resolution for video. Why they would do this instead of just transferring the print is beyond me.

The only time I ever found any information regarding the resolution of one of Pixar's films was a short mention (which isn't there anymore) on their website which stated "A Bug's Life" was rendered at 2048x768. That's odd since, assuming the pixels were square, it would mean an aspect ratio of 2.67:1! I'm pretty sure I remember that correctly, so I suppose they were using non-square pixels.

Speaking more generally, from what I understand, almost all animation/FX shots are done at 2K resolution these days. The only time I've ever heard of anything being done at 4K is for the film "Wonder Boys" (scroll to the last few paragraphs on that link). Unless you see a news article or something that says otherwise, I believe it is safe to assume that all CG work is at the de-facto standard of 2K resolution.

As for "Toy Story" and the like being re-rendered for home video, that's been done because they were re-composing the entire movie for a different aspect ratio. "A Bug's Life" was 2.39:1 scope for the theatrical release, but for VHS, the movie was re-done as a 1.33:1 image. And the newly released "Toy Story" DVDs have both been redone from their original 1.85:1 aspect ratio to 16:9 (1.78:1). In both cases, I would assume that they only render at NTSC resolution rather than full film resolution, since that's all they need.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-13-2001 06:56 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I didn't know "Wonder Boys" had any CGI work done at 4K resolution. But given this a very reality based movie, I can certainly see the need for doing that. I think any fantasy movie can get away with more of a cartoony look.

A lot of CGI stuff in the early 1990's was rendered at 4K. But some of those movies, like "Terminator 2" and "In the Line of Fire" had 70mm release prints in addition to their 35mm counterparts. Perhaps this could be an additional reason why Hollywood won't strike any 70mm prints of their films. A 4K rendering is going to be at the lowest passable quality limits for 70mm. That kind of frame needs something like 6K or 8K renderings. IMAX frames commonly get 16,000 line CGI renderings.

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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 05-14-2001 12:06 PM      Profile for Michael Barry   Email Michael Barry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
16K for IMAX? I was wondering about that, Bobby - that's very interesting! Even with today's computers, that would still take some number crunching to render.

OK, so about 'The Mummy Returns'...I LOVE this movie! It shocks me that others cannot find joy in it; I am currently going nuts over this. I like everything about it - the cast is first-rate (great characters!), the script is self-knowing and very funny (the film, like its predecessor, has a sense of humour that I find infectious), the score by Alan Silvestri is exactly what it needs to be (all the music cues are spot-on both in terms of timing and content), the sound is great (especially in DTS), the art department and costume/hair department had a field day and the anamorphic cinematography is beautiful! The CGI was very impressive as well - I noticed that this was a major problem for many people and perhaps I'm less picky when it comes to CGI but for me it was stunning, given the context of the film. I was immersed in the story, so I guess I bought it!

Scene after scene, I was impressed with the amazing choreography, editing and camerawork. The timing and rhythm are amazing throughout. Each cut, each camera angle, each movement was precise and perfect, delivering an adrelaline rush and a very wide smile to this viewer. The execution - the direction - is so vital to any film. The very same scene sinks or swims depending on the right direction. Cut here, not here. Place the camera here - not here - and use a lens of this focal length. Dolly in now. Combining these elements in a combination that *clicks*, where the rhythm is just right, will clarify a scene, making it very powerful and exciting. The same scene in which these elements don't come together will be lifeless and dull. To wit: compare the large-scale battle scenes in 'The Mummy Returns' with those of 'Gladiator'. Simply put, one of them immerses the viewer and excites them, the other confuses and disorients.

Why does this film and its predecessor take my fancy so much? Is it my fascination with Egypt? Do I enjoy adventure movies and feel that there hasn't been one quite like it for years? Is it the sheer exhuberance, unstoppable energy and charm of it all? It's hard to say...but it all comes togther for me flawlessly.

'The Mummy' and 'The Mummy Returns' are the very best films of their kind.

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Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-15-2001 03:23 PM      Profile for Demetris Thoupis   Email Demetris Thoupis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
HEY GUYS!! You are all missing the great important point here. MOVIES are ALL FAKE. They are made to entertain people so that people can go, see a movie and have FUN, not just bore themselves to death. I personally believe that The Mummy Returns is four times better than the MUMMY. Of course everyone has different taste on films. I loved the film. Everything combined together twice as much as the first one. I accept though the fact that there were many faults in the film. The Scorpion CGI at the end was extremely bad done, and also some things that just did not tie in with the whole progress of the film (again how did that guy flew that jet balloon anyway!!). Well. After all this film brought thousands of people in the theaters bursting to see it. MANY were satisfied. In Cyprus the film opens in two weeks but the hype is already on the climax. I've seen the film on a screening but I really loved it. Definately I would see it again. And all those who say that the film is stupid "HEY. WE HAVE DEMOCRACY. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BELIEVE ANYTHING YOUR WANT"

Ciao guys
Demetris Thoupis

"OH NO NOT THIS GUY AGAIN"

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-15-2001 04:24 PM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Toy Story was rendered at 1536x922 (1.66:1). I seriously doubt that it was recomposed at all for DVD, other than cropping to 1.78:1, which is less cropping than for 1.85:1 in theatres.

reference on resolution figure:

"Creating Lifelike Characters in Pixar Movies", Porter, Tom and Galyn Susman, Communications of the ACM, January 2000, Vol. 43, No. 1, p. 26.

Evidentally, resolution for rendering can be remarkably low for film presentation and still look good. The grainy nature of film probably helps to hide the pixels.

A Bug's Life was 2048x872.

Reference: http://www.mydvdlist.com/dvd/dvdlist/197.html

Toy Story 2 was 1536x925

Reference:
http://www.millimeter.com/HTM/Articles/2000/May/ECinema.htm


I would be curious to know the resolution used for the CG effects in "The Mummy Returns".

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site


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Rachel Carter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 248
From: Gloucester, Massachusetts, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 05-16-2001 02:17 PM      Profile for Rachel Carter   Email Rachel Carter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I saw the beginning and end of The Mummy Returns. The beginning kept me interested (I didn't leave because I wanted to, I left because I had to) but when I came back at the end all I saw was the poorly animated Scorpion King...THAT WAS HORRIBLE! Take in mind I didn't understand what was going on because I left so the story didn't make any sense to me but, there seemed like there was no true emotion...I guess the Rock isn't known to have any real emotion anyway


Don't pick on The Perfect Storm...remember what that was about??? Look where I'm from

I guess I'm going to have to see the whole Mummy Returns movie...maybe tonight.

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Tom Evans
Film Handler

Posts: 13
From: UK, Birmingham.
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-18-2001 08:54 PM      Profile for Tom Evans   Email Tom Evans   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
1. Brendan Frasser pulls John Hanner out of the bath tub way too fast.

2. The Egyptain prince (the bald one) is hanging over the abyss to hell at the end with his right hand, then in the next cut he is holding onto the cliff edge with his other hand.

3. In the London bus chase, there are Pedestrian Crossings visable on the roads...erm wot decade was this supposed to be set in.

anyway...a good film. Even if they went overboard with the CGI.

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