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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4 
 
Author Topic: Sub-Runs/Dollar Houses
Wayne Cope
Film Handler

Posts: 25
From: Micanopy, FL, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 09-14-2000 02:04 AM      Profile for Wayne Cope   Email Wayne Cope   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I always had the impression that subrun houses existed where a chain or an owner did not want a facility to stand empty, but did not want to put the effort out to keep the place first-run. Perhaps they were stuck in a lease, or they owned the real estate and were waiting for a better market to sell, or they were waiting to multiplex the space for first-run. So essentially, such a place would usually exist where cinemas had overbuilt, and where the casualties of the overbuilding kept showing movies rather than leveling the space and leasing to retailers, etc.

I am curious to hear stories of owners who bought into a facility with the intent to open a subrun.

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Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1079
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 09-14-2000 08:56 AM      Profile for Barry Floyd   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Floyd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
(O'Neil put a sub-run theatre in Nashville in the old Hills shopping center at the intersection of TN 45 and US 31E and the last time I drove by it, I was amazed at how old some of the movies were. It seems that this location was once a grocery store or department store, back around 1991 or so.)

(It used to be a Kroger grocery store)

We drove by there this weekend and noticed no listings on the marquee, and two big U-Hauls backed up to the front doors. I pulled in the parking lot and went up to the doors...looked in and they were definetely closed.

There were guys in there removing the projection equipment (All Strong Pro 35's - with consoles and Strong Platters). Instead of moving the equipment down the stairs from the booth, they cut a 6' square hole in the wall and were removing it with a fork lift.

I went inside and asked what would be happening to the equipment and they said it would be used in another theatre.


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Richard C. Wolfe
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Northampton, PA, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 09-14-2000 10:01 PM      Profile for Richard C. Wolfe   Author's Homepage   Email Richard C. Wolfe   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wayne (and anyone interested!)

Subrun theatres have existed since the earliest days of our industry. During the period of the nickelodeons (1908-1920), and even during the twenties there existed numerous runs depending on the size of the release territory. Some large cities had a many as six runs. Most areas had at least three or four runs.

One of the things that seems to surprise a lot of younger (under 40) people in this business is the fact that prior to the multi-plex theatres, in the days of single screens and even during the early transition period when the first twins appeared, first run movies only played in any given town (except large cities) for only one week. They then moved on to the next run, either to the neighborhood houses, or to the surrounding small towns. Occasionally a picture was held over for a 2nd week...and maybe several times a year a blockbuster made it for three weeks!

The release pattern usually worked like this: On national release the picture opened in the larger towns for the one week run. The 2nd runs were on a 28 day release after the first run completed their week. The key neighborhood houses and the larger of the suburban towns then played the picture for two or three days. 14 days after they finished it, it was available to the 3rd runs who again played it for 1, 2 or 3 days, and then 7 days later it was available to the 4th run houses.

The life of a picture was actually longer back then, with all the various runs, then it is today. Of course there was no TV or video except during the later part of that time. It was not unusual for popular pictures to return to the first runs again several months later and go through the entire release pattern again.

There were far more subrun theatres then first run back in those days (prior to 1950). TV pretty much put the cabosh to all that. However, many subrun houses have continued to this very day. Many of the single screen subruns that still exist, have always been subrun...some as long as since the 1920s. They were in business long before any multi-plexes existed. They saw twins, tri-plexes, quads and even multi-plexes come AND go! They are still here with the mega-plexes as well. And considering what is happening in the industry at the present time...some of them will still be around after some of the mega-plexes bite the dust.

So yes, people have and still open and operate theatres strictly as subruns. They are a market of their own. They serve a much needed purpose within our industry. NOT EVERYONE CAN AFFORD TO GO TO FIRST RUN THEATRES! This may surprise some, but it's true. Do you think that those who can't justify paying first run prices don't deserve to enjoy movies in a theatre too? Would you like the kids of poorer Americans to grow up never going to theatres to see movies? If they get use to watching films on video or only on TV, they will remain loyal to that media as adults. But if they grow up viewing films in subrun theatres...when they go out on their own and prosper for themselves they will continue to patronize theatres. If they have elevated themselves to a higher economic level they very well might then patronize firstrun theatres instead of the video store.

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Charles Everett
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: New Jersey
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 12-14-2001 05:27 PM      Profile for Charles Everett   Email Charles Everett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks to the "Ghetto Tuesday" line in another thread I'm bumping this one back up.

Mike Spaeth might want to expand on the differences between running a first-run theater and running a dollar house.

In Northern New Jersey -- from Trenton and Toms River north -- there's only two "pure" subrun theaters, an old single-screen on the Jersey Shore and a twin in Warren County. Two other multiplexes have a hybrid of subrun and Bollywood fare.


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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 12-14-2001 06:09 PM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First run with a single screen is disaster if what seemed to be greatest picture ever made turns out to be a dud with 14 weeks remaining on the run, file the bankruptcy papers and nail the doors. At least with subrun you get to see how a film performed before booking it. Video promotion on tv frequently helps us. Shrek was released on video a couple days after we opened it. The first Sat. nite was good, but the second Saturday, after video ads. on tv. was a full house, the following week was very good too.

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Mike Spaeth
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1129
From: Marietta, GA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 12-14-2001 08:00 PM      Profile for Mike Spaeth   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Spaeth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cinemark, especially in the early 90's built quite a few BRAND NEW buildings with the sole intent of running them as discount houses. I am now managing a 10-screen discount that was opened first run and went discount in late 98 when we opened a new stadium 17-screen down the road. I am expected to keep my building in the same shape as the manager at the other theatre. In other words, they don't skimp on expenses just cause i'm "only a dollar house." The customer gets the same quality Cinemark experience at either theater. The differences, from what I can tell, are, for one, house placements are MUCH more difficult to do in a discount house, since people are just coming for the dollar show (most of the time), not for a specific movie. Therefore, whatever I put in a small house stands a chance of selling out on a whim. But ... prints can always be moved to larger auditoriums. Also, there is a TON of print work, since the 2-week minimum doesn't apply to subrun contracts. On The Line ran here for one week (12/7-13). But the customers love the prices ... $1 every day ... $.50 Tuesdays.

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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 12-14-2001 08:25 PM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Has the huge expansion of megaplexes meant earlier and more prints available for sub-run (as a result of big movies opening very wide and soon cut back meaning extra prints)?

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Mike Spaeth
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1129
From: Marietta, GA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 12-15-2001 03:47 PM      Profile for Mike Spaeth   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Spaeth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave ... that all depends on the distributor.

New Line, MGM, Universal, and Fox all do their subrun allocations market-by-market. So, basically, when metro Atlanta first-run houses all drop a film, they open it subrun. Universal does it by a smaller area. I can count on getting a film shortly after the 17-screen down the street loses it.

Paramount, WB, BV, and most of the others set national sub-run dates for a picture ... usually after the picture is completely dead and not showing anywhere in the country anymore.

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 12-16-2001 10:38 AM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There may be more prints, but with more and more poorly trained operators, the prints are in WORSE condition than ever before.

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Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 12-17-2001 01:46 AM      Profile for Paul Cassidy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Cassidy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We don't have any of those cinemas as the Complexs only hold the best films until they flog the pants off them , then the video release is close behind , although I have still made money on films even after the video release , J Park 1 was one that did really well until the distributor wanted it back some times I would look for some old film to use ,I used "Ewoks Adveture" and this was old and you would not beleave the crowds we got

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 12-17-2001 01:46 PM      Profile for Jeffry L. Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Jeffry L. Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I keep hearing that the distributors are trying to eliminate subrun by moving up the video release dates.

The 2001 December 21/28 issue of "Entertainment Weekly" (#631/632) states:
"MOST SHOCKING STATISTIC
Shrek, The Mummy Returns, Planet of the Apes, and Dr. Seuss' How the Grinch Stole Christmas earned more in their first week of video & DVD release than they did in their first week of theatrical release."

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 12-17-2001 01:58 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jeffry noted: "MOST SHOCKING STATISTIC -- Shrek, The Mummy Returns, Planet of the Apes, and Dr. Seuss' How the Grinch Stole Christmas earned more in their first week of video & DVD release than they did in their first week of theatrical release."

I bet if any of those movies had been released direct-to-video without a theatrical release, they would be lucky to get 1/10 the video sales they did. Shortening the theatrical "window" any further may "kill the goose that lays the golden eggs".

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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System Notices
Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi

Posts: 215

Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 07-04-2007 12:57 PM      Profile for System Notices         Edit/Delete Post 

It has been 2024 days since the last post.


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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 07-04-2007 12:57 PM      Profile for Mike Olpin   Email Mike Olpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How is the sub-run market doing these days? I'm cautiously eyeballing a local theatre that is almost up on it's lease.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 07-04-2007 02:12 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We have a few sub/discounts in our area (and which I have to include the two drive-ins in this area as well in this mix) and it really depends on how they are operated in as well as their locale.

Also in this area dwells the Big Lion named, "REG".

One sub is doing very well, whereas the other sub is surviving.

One discount is also surviving whereas the other is doing the bucks.

NOW, in another town in our state that I'm familiar with, ALL of the subs and discounts there and doing extremely well (course, these are owned by one fellow whom was one of my operators at my home town theatre that I trained and educated in the film industry and took that knowledge to his advantage...) and is thinking of doing his own expansion of sorts.

AND going to the drive-in end of the spectrum: Both drive-ins are just doing the Fri to Sun runs. One is doing pretty well, while the other is making bank twice to three times over.

Now Michael, why of the differences in operations mentioned above: It's called ATMOSPHERE - simply atmosphere.

The big disadvantage in the word "discount" is that the public usually expects a much lesser operation - a tired looking building, house or houses with tired to worn seats - no stadium, substandard screen and sound presentations, and to go along with this lesser form of operation is that of the mgmt/staff morale goes along with this attitude.

Also, discounts is where you find a lot of "mom and pop" type operations where the entire family works at the theate with a very small amount of outside employees-and ususally just paid out of the register. And with this kind of atmosphere, one don't know what to expect to see on the screen, let alone how the theatre is conditionwise.

Thus Mike, if you're gonna run a discount, please present the best atmosphere that you can imagine - pretend that you have a palace of magic and surprises for this will draw the crowds to your cinema.

EDIT: I want to add to this that is also very important to a potiental "indie" when one is beginning to look into this venture of film exhibition: KNOW your community! Feel out what your community is based like and then give them all you can of your business to that community, and I'll promise you that your operation will be the most successful as it can be. Granted, it's going to be a hard road ahead as you begin, but as you go on, eventually you'll develop an organization within your operation that you, your employees and that community will obviously recognize. Then after the organization gets established, then you will have an obvious system that can't be beat and once again all will recognize what you have and have to offer.

With this, respect will develop from you and your community and you've accomplished what other can only dreamed of due to their selfish ignorance and only wanting things to go their way and others must serve that one venue.

As I mentioned before with that one fellow who wants to go into his own service business: Be in control at all times. Don't let your guard down, for if you do and let others control you, you'll be lost forever and it will be a very hard struggle to regain what you lost.

Good luck ...

-Monte

[ 07-04-2007, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]

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