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Author Topic: star wars trailer
Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 11-26-2001 01:09 AM      Profile for Greg Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jimmy Buffett? No... I haven't heard that. But these days it's hard to tell if the picture you're seeing is really supposed to be the guy who's writing. I mean... Paul! Wow!

Lucas made an interesting comment when Episode One was playing in "digital cinemas" in the summer of 1999. If you recall, the theatres selected weren't the best, state-of-the-art THX whiz-bang places to see movies. Lucas said something like, "Remember, this is as bad as it's ever going to be. Digital cinema will only get better from here." (That's paraphrasing rather than an exact quote.) I hope he was sincre and that the technicians won't sit still until digital cinema truly does rival the resolution and contract ratios of... oh... I don't know... 70mm!

There was an interesting article in a recent issue of American Cinematographer about Episode Two. Lucas said (and I'm paraphrasing here again) that he didn't want to argue about black levels and pixel counts. Just watch the results and decide how it looks. So far, I'm impressed. As for the thing looking "cartoony" I don't think it looks any more so than the CGI we've been seeing for years already. The CGI ocean in the Episode Two trailer looks no more cartoony to me than the digital ocean in The Perfect Storm. (It's the same software, after all.) The only trouble with Episode Two is that 90% of the sets will also be CGI. But... that's no different from Episode One.

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Aaron Haney
Master Film Handler

Posts: 265
From: Cupertino, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 11-26-2001 02:25 AM      Profile for Aaron Haney   Email Aaron Haney   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Lucas said ... he didn't want to argue about black levels and pixel counts." I guess he is aware that digital in its current state would lose any such arguments.

It really burns me that proponents of digital cinema don't deal in facts. They deal in hype. They spout vague, hand-waving arguments and nothing more. They don't seem interested in actually measuring whether digital or film produces better results.

As for the thing about Episode II prints, McCallum's statement is a little unclear, but I'm pretty sure they will be making multiple INs directly from the digital master, and the release prints from those. Someone on rec.arts.movies.tech posted saying there will be 50 such INs coming directly from the digital master, but that poster did not say where he got his information.

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-26-2001 09:39 AM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am going to restate my question that I posted earlier.

Aaron, Ken:

Have either of you actually seen a DLP presentation or are you just totally put off by what you have heard?

If it is the second, I would recommend that you see a show first, then think about what the average consumer would think. It has been mentioned on this forum that film will probably never die because of financials involved in doing one or the other. D-Cinema will happen. There is no question about this. It is just a matter of when and who will be the major players as far as equipment is concerned.

I can tell you for fact that I have people that attended "Monsters" last weekend that came from Austin to Dallas (roughly 200 mi) to see the DLP exclusively. I have others that drive at least an hour, again to see the DLP exclusively. Must tell you something.

Paul.


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-26-2001 12:59 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's a recent article about comparing digital and film origination from Cinematographer.com:
http://www.cinematographer.com/article/mainv/0,7220,31313,00.html

Here's a tutorial on current film duplication systems:
Printing Systems

"Digital Intermediate" has already been used for several features:
Digital Intermediate

Here's an article about the objective data being presented by Dr. Roger Morton:
The Impact on Digital Film Mastering by Dr. Roger Morton
SMPTE Report

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 11-26-2001 05:01 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not doubting that the quality is excelent. I just love working with film! If there were any DLP theatres around here, I'd go to one.

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Aaron Haney
Master Film Handler

Posts: 265
From: Cupertino, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 11-26-2001 06:30 PM      Profile for Aaron Haney   Email Aaron Haney   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Paul, I have seen DLP on several occasions, for both computer animated movies, and movies that were shot on film and transferred to digital. In all cases, I felt that the resolution and contrast simply didn't measure up to what I see with film.

In one instance, I was even able to do a near side-by-side comparison. A few months ago, I went to see "Final Fantasy" in DLP at the AMC 1000 Van Ness in San Francisco. After it was over, I stepped across the hall and peeked into another auditorium that was showing FF from a film print. The difference was remarkable. The change in contrast ratio was particularly noticable. I felt immediately that a huge range of values had been opened that I simply wasn't able to see in the other auditorium. The difference between the brightest thing on the screen and the darkest thing on the screen was much bigger than it was in the DLP screening. I must emphasize that this was not a subtle difference. It was night and day. I left the theater with the distinct impression that the laser recorder -> film combination gave better results than a DLP presentation.

Yes, yes, I know. Digital cinema is going to happen, nothing is going to stop it, etc. But if that's the only argument in favor of it, I'd say there's somthing wrong, wouldn't you?

(P.S. Sorry I didn't see your question the first time.)


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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-26-2001 06:52 PM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Aaron, I changed my question when I went to Page 1 and saw your complaints there.

DC will progress and possibly come closer to film but will probably not be able to surpass film or your keen eyes. This is one reason why film will continue to be in existance. Unless someone pointed out the differences, I probably would not be able to tell the difference.

Again, Joe MovieGoer probably wouldn't know the difference that you can see. They are there to be entertained (hopefully) and be told a story. Most won't care about contrast ratios or the things that a cinematographer looks for.

I am probably a little biased because I have two installations in my theatre, but it still amazes me what is being put up on the screen.


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Aaron Haney
Master Film Handler

Posts: 265
From: Cupertino, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 11-26-2001 07:48 PM      Profile for Aaron Haney   Email Aaron Haney   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey, I don't mean to imply that I think digital cinema won't catch up and pass film. It probably will. I'm just groaning about the current state and all the hype surrounding it. There are other technologies on the horizon (D-ILA, Laser Projection) which may make DLP irrelevant. DLP is a neat hack, but it's got some problems. I'm looking forward to what the next few years will bring.

My only real fear is that what we have today will become a de-facto standard, and we'll be stuck with it even after better things come along.

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