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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Ground Level   » TheForce.net Demands Immediate Digital Cinema Conversion (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: TheForce.net Demands Immediate Digital Cinema Conversion
Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 05-20-2002 04:02 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pete - sorry if I'm going off-topic here, but the reason CDs are still with us is precisely the same reason VHS is still with us: there is a critical mass of hardware and software out in the field.

Both are technically obsolete formats, but they've lasted so long because they gained market saturation. Most households in the developed world contain a CD player and VHS VCR, together with several hundred media for each. In order for this situation to change, either the economies of scale have to change, or the new format has to be backwards-compatible (e.g. DVD players being able to play CDs), or both.

It took a decade from the launch of audio CDs to vinyl LPs disappearing from the mainstream market. I guess that, as DVD technology becomes more widespread and recordable machines become affordable, new audio-only recordings will gradually start to be issued on a DVD format which uses the extra data capacity to encode more channels of sound and/or higher sampling rates/frequency responses in each one.

When DVD-R discs come down to a similar price (per megabyte of storage) to CD-Rs, then assuming no long-term storage issues come out of the woodwork, I'll certainly start using them and probably stop using CDs.

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1869
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 05-20-2002 07:31 AM      Profile for Mitchell Dvoskin   Email Mitchell Dvoskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
CD's are still with us because the more modern alternatives are not preceived as a significant improvement to the general public. When CD's came out, everyone could hear how much better they sounded, regardless of the grade of stereo equipment they were using.

DVD audio offers more than 2 channel sound, but that has never been a big issue for the public, other than the home theatre enthusisasts. The down side is the draconian copy protection that the public has clearly rejected.

MiniDisc offer record capability, but that is really an add on in the general public's mind, and regular CDR recorders are now cheap.

MP3 and related solid state formats, again, offer add-on versitilty in that the units are small and portable, but don't sound any better than CD's (at best).

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 05-20-2002 11:02 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
On the day that The Fellowship Of The Ring came out, a friend wrote me about how Aragorn couldn't be seen watching the hobbits from his dark corner: the theater owner had turned down the juice going to the projector bulb to save a few measly bucks! Such finagling - by thermodynamics or thuggery - won’t happen on a digital system: the movie you see ten weeks from now will be the same movie, in every detail, as is the movie you see tomorrow.

This point certainly is not valid. What makes him think the theater owner won't do the same thing with the 7k bulb running in the DLP's lamphouse? The projector head may be totally different, but the lamphouse technology is exactly the same. And as someone mentioned above, the lamps are even more expensive and don't last as long.

I'm not against digital. I think it can peacefully coexist with film. But like everyone else, I am against what these people are doing. They are using half truths and sometimes false statements to try to justify that digital is better.

quote:
With that done, we can focus on bigger game: convincing the major studios and theatrical chains that digital projection is in their best interest.

It may be in the sudios' best interests because it elminates the production and shipping costs ascociated with film. But since the studio pays for all that, tell me, exactly how is it in the theaters' best interests?? The average customer probablly doesn't care. And as Adam Wilbert pointed out, some customers can't tell the difference. (See the thread Customers "Can't believe its not... DLP" in Yak.)

Yes, I do feel another letter-writing campaign coming on....

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This one time, at Projection Camp, I stuck a xenon bulb....


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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 05-20-2002 04:31 PM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
...and who cares if the movie is "not the same" 10 weeks or more after opening? Where are these 10-week holdovers? Not many around here. I wanted to see the Rookie about 3 weeks after release, your standard, pretty well received film, an it was already gone. The people had seen it and it's gone. The rare films that do hang on for 13 weeks let's say, or 1/4 of a year are few. Let 'em have their DLP, so they can run WWF at the theatre and watch Fellowship of the Ring or whatever it was at home in DLP on a 10 foot screen years after release, that's really what this is about, isn't it?

Now, before you jump on me, I want to say that if I do run film commercially in the future, I WILL pay attention, use cleaning devices and keep things in good order. I saw the prototype to my drive-in booth yesterday at the IMAX booth at Canadian Museum of Civiliztion in Hull Quebec (Ottawa). You can't see the projector, but the platter is housed in a carpeted sealed clean room with various controls and monitors that make it look like an evil lair. Two platter set-up, the film winds off one, disappears 20 feet in the air, and back down again. The other show stands by on the other decks. It's apparent that these films must be rewound as the platter winds off the outside and is taken up on a solid core. Fascinating. As much as we fret about film done wrong, I find that alot of people don't notice the flaws I will as a result of hanging around on this forum. I don't think most films have enough legs to need to be preserved very long (AGAIN - NO REASON NOT TO PRESERVE THEM). I think this fact will delay DLP as much as anything. I just don't know enough people who really care if a film is DTS, SR, SDDS or whatever. A well-lit screen with a good clear sound is all most people want. The theatres in my part of the world seem to give it to them.

PS- the "prototype" means that I'd like to have a glass-walled booth so people really can see the magic of film, how it works, and for you technical types, how clean things are...

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Tom Fermanian
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 101
From: Sainte Adele, Quebec, Canada
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 05-20-2002 07:36 PM      Profile for Tom Fermanian   Email Tom Fermanian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First of all, in Quebec anyway, a majority of theatres are NOT playing SW EP.2 on account of unreasonable demands by georgie and his group,We can't afford to play his picture in 35, do you think we can afford to change over to digital because "movie supreme grand poohbah Georgie Lucas" and his bunch say so? No way! NATO is studying along with the majors on a business plan etc. so we do notall rush blindly into this! If Georgie want's digital presentation so much: Let Him furnish the equipment at his expense!, Let Him give theatres a better break on terms! Let him peddle more plastic SW stuff and with those profits equip our theatres!The future of digital cinema to my thinking Does not belong to Georgie & his henchmen! he is just another cog in this machine and unless he put's up $$, let him wait like everybody else until we find a system that will be generaly accepted by all factions in the industry without bankrupting anyone!
(Am Not against progress! digital will one day be there ,for now , film will do just fine if we all care enough!)

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Craig Hanham
Film Handler

Posts: 79
From: Wellington, New Zealand
Registered: Oct 2001


 - posted 05-20-2002 08:10 PM      Profile for Craig Hanham   Email Craig Hanham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Films are scratched and no good after opening weekend"

BOLLOX, BOLLOX, BOLLOX.
If my 50 year old Westrex projectors, still running 2000' changeover can run a green Bollywood print without scratching, when operated by me, a twice-a-month projector jockey (I know this after running the same 3 1/2 hourprint 3 times in one day) then so can everyone else in a main run cinema!!!
So bloody there.

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Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 05-20-2002 10:29 PM      Profile for Paul Cassidy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Cassidy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
TOOO Bloody Right Mate !!!!!!!

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A KIWI eats,roots & Leaves.


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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-21-2002 10:10 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
WH...WH...WHAT? Did I read that correctly???

George only saved 2.5 million by shooting it on video? SURELY Star Wars, his little baby for now over 25 years deserves to look as good as it possibly can! SHOOT ON FILM, DAMMIT!

Geez...I can't believe that's all he saved. I thought it must have been in the tens of millions to degrade the quality this much. For goodness sake...$2.5 million???

He carries that much in his wallet!

There's no hope for us all...

I'm going to bed.

...and while you're at it George...for goodness sake, let someone else direct the next one. Give old Stevie a go. Or perhaps Baz Luhrman.

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"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage". - Indiana Jones.

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