Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Ground Level   » Alcoholic Managers (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Alcoholic Managers
Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-08-2002 05:41 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I never said I liked it, I just stated the law. The law is the law, and if you fire someone for showing up to work drunk, even 'can't walk a straight line' drunk, you can be sued under the ADA. It might suck, but the theatre would lose.

 |  IP: Logged

Michael Gonzalez
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 790
From: Grand Island , NE USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 08-08-2002 07:39 PM      Profile for Michael Gonzalez   Email Michael Gonzalez   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The simple solution in that case would be to not fire them for showing up drunk but fire them for their actions while drunk. For instance if someone is drunk and carelessly damages an expensive print because if it, than you fire them for ruining a print (not even mentioning that they were drunk in the offical report). This way they can't sue.

 |  IP: Logged

Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-08-2002 08:32 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not so sure about that. The best solution is to contact the companies HR department and talk to someone who knows all the details of the law.

 |  IP: Logged

Dennis Benjamin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1445
From: Denton, MD
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 08-08-2002 11:21 PM      Profile for Dennis Benjamin   Author's Homepage   Email Dennis Benjamin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Most professional companies have a piece of paper that every employee has to sign when they are hired. With every company - it has a different name. With my company - it is called the "Respect Works Here" document. An employee (or manager) reads and signs this document when they are hired. In it - it explains that there are certain conditions under which their employment can be terminated immediately. Drug and alchohol use is included.

------------------
"Running through life at 24 frames per second"

 |  IP: Logged

Justin McLeod
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 08-08-2002 11:43 PM      Profile for Justin McLeod   Email Justin McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

Just a reminder, I have only heard this assistant manager is a "functional Acoholic", but his attitude towards the staff is unacceptable. He gets into arguments with employees very often and for the dumbest reasons. His attitude could very well be from drinking alcohol. This assistant manager is very forgetfull and he lacks a kind of common sence thats needed when things get busy. This gentleman is very courtous to the customers though.If he does any drinking he does it at home because I have never seen him drinking at work but I believe the attitude he gives to the employees is from drinking.

Nobody from my theater has any intrest in film-tech especially the other projectionists so I have no worries about anyone reading these posts.

I guess I will wait and see what happens in the future before I talk to somebody about it.

 |  IP: Logged

Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-08-2002 11:58 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dennis, those pieces of paper often times have no value in a court of law. You cannot sign away your rights. As an extreme example, one could sign a piece of paper that says, "I understand that I can be terminated at any time because of my sexual orientation." Despite signing it, you could sue after being fired for just that, and you'd win.

 |  IP: Logged

Dennis Benjamin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1445
From: Denton, MD
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 08-09-2002 12:22 AM      Profile for Dennis Benjamin   Author's Homepage   Email Dennis Benjamin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, when it comes to extreme issues -like alchohol or drug use in the workplace - those pieces of paper do hold up in a court of law.

Judges usually have common sense. When it comes to a person drinking alchohol on the job (not having an illness of alchoholism) IT IS ILLEGAL AND IT IS GROUNDS FOR TERMINATION.

If a person has an alcohol problem outside the workplace - that is a different story.

If a person has a mental illness which causes them to hurt people - do they have a right to work with the public? No- It's common sense that they belong in a hospital or in a situation where they are being controlled.

------------------
"Running through life at 24 frames per second"

 |  IP: Logged

Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-09-2002 10:22 AM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is an interesting topic.

One note: I'll bet there is a significant legal difference in showing up drunk and actually bringing an alcoholic beverage. The second would probably be a more air-tight reason to fire someone since it is easier to have a policy against it. Bringing an alcoholic beverage on premises does not imply the comsumption, or previous consumption, of alcohol. For example, if I brought alcohol to the university where I work, I could be disciplined or terminated even if I never drank alcohol.

I won't name the theatre company or anything, but from a previous employee at one establishment, I found out that one manager from a few years ago did cocaine in the booth (and wasn't around too long), and that the company had one employee from there on rehab for a while. Is it common for any of the major theatre chains to attempt to rehabilitate employees that develop drug problems?

Very seldom do I encounter people that have any serious problems with drugs or alcohol in my environment. There have been some student lab assistants from several years ago that developed some problems, and one in particular nearly destroyed himself in the process (and did some permanent damage to his mind and body). One sad case from the 80s was one guy who many said had 2 Ph.D.'s, but had a severe alcohol problem and did so much damage to himself that he could not spell or talk clearly. Email messages I would get from him would have severe misspellings. I did come across a technical bulletin of his from the 1970s once, and it was well-written. That's really sad. He died 2 or 3 years ago.

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site


 |  IP: Logged

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 08-09-2002 10:50 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As for his/her ability to function, this person may be able to handle floats and tally register receipts and other garden-variety duties, but what happens if there is ever an emergency (e.g. fire, bomb threat) requiring quick thinking and heightened awareness? I wouldn't want an alcoholic (functioning or otherwise) in charge of the place.

However, having said all of that...I wonder why it is assumed that a "bad attitude" is linked to the alleged drinking problem..? I think it is a stretch (if not a total leap) of logic.

I agree with what Paul said: It doesn't matter how well-intentioned you may be; this could look like a "witch hunt." I can pretty much guarantee that you will wish you had left this entire matter alone if that is how your talk with the higher-ups is perceived.

~Manny (100% all-natural since 1969)


 |  IP: Logged

Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 08-09-2002 03:08 PM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Even though alcoholism is listed under the ADA, you can terminiate someone whose alcohol use is nnegatively affecting their job performance. Basically, you can't fire someone for being an alcoholic, but you can fire them for showing up to work under the influence.

 |  IP: Logged

Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-09-2002 04:35 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dennis, I've known several lawyers over the years, and all of them sneer at warning labels on products and pieces of paper employees sign. Neither is very effective when a good lawyer has the case. You can not sign away your rights, that I know for a fact. Now, like Evans said, drinking alcohal on the job and coming to work drunk are two different things legally.

I'm not saying having employees sign policy change forms isn't a good idea, as a matter of fact it is a great idea. Notice in my original post that I said '...those pieces of paper often times have no value in a court of law.' The reason is that many times employees think they can get around the law by having someone sign a piece of paper, and as I've said this is just not true. But that doesn't mean you can't have employees sign off on policies that are legal, as a matter of fact you should, as it is the only way to prove they were informed of the policy. For example, in my district if an employee is caught not upselling or suggestive selling, they are immediatly terminated. All employees have signed a letter showing they understand this policy.

Back to the problem manager, yes, you can fire him for other reasons besides being an alcoholic. A few things though:

1) You must be very carefull never to mention the drinking problem during or after the termination. Any indicatoin that that was the real reason and you could be in trouble.

2) In most states you can fire anyone, anytime, for any reason-so long as that reason doesn't violate Title IX or the ADA (see above). HOWEVER, if you terminate someone for no reason, you will be obligated to pay unemployement.

The best course of action if you want to get rid of this guy is to start building a record of disciplinary actions. Once you have a big enough file of infractions-which shouldn't take too long by the sound of it-termination will be easy. As a further caution though, be carefull not to write him up for too obscure of offenses. For example, if you write him up for eating or drinking behind the concession stand (if that is against your policy) you better make sure your writing everyone up for that.

 |  IP: Logged

Dennis Benjamin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1445
From: Denton, MD
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 08-09-2002 08:52 PM      Profile for Dennis Benjamin   Author's Homepage   Email Dennis Benjamin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not every company I have worked for has been willing to help employees with drug and alcohol problems. As a general manager I have always offered that help to employees that have obvious problems.

------------------
"Running through life at 24 frames per second"

 |  IP: Logged

Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-09-2002 09:01 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dennis, I feel the same way. People should be given at least one chance to clean up before being booted.

 |  IP: Logged

Michael Gonzalez
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 790
From: Grand Island , NE USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 08-12-2002 08:26 PM      Profile for Michael Gonzalez   Email Michael Gonzalez   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How many people honestly believe that the threat of losing one's job would be enough to convince an alcoholic to sober up? Or a drug user to clean up?

 |  IP: Logged

Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-13-2002 12:00 AM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
There is a significant difference between a druggie and an alkie. Most alkies don't rob houses and mug people to support their habit.

Oh, and Michael Gonzalez, your have no email ID and therefore no credibility...your ass should be kicked outta here...


 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.