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Author Topic: NYC bans cell phones at movies
Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 02-14-2003 12:03 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only legal way, even with a law banning cell phones, would be to build your auditoriums in a way that prevents cell phone signals from penetrating the structure. Using a couple feet of steel reinforced concrete would be a good way.

'Jamming' the signal, which would require you to broadcast your own signal on the same frequencies that the cell phones use, would be illegal since you would be broadcasting without a license.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-14-2003 12:45 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Again, some enterprising company should build a device that detects the "handshake" (locating) signal of any cell phone operating in close proximity to it, sounding an alarm. Such a device next to the ticket-taker would allow theatre personnel to politely ask for the customer to turn the cell phone OFF before entering the theatre.

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 02-14-2003 12:48 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Now that's a darned good idea.

Goes to tear apart cell phone to assemble detector parts...

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Gracia L. Babbidge
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 709
From: Bowdoin, Maine
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 02-14-2003 02:05 PM      Profile for Gracia L. Babbidge   Author's Homepage   Email Gracia L. Babbidge   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad - actually, what I tend to do in that situation is slow down. Now I'm no speed freak either, particularly driving at night on the highway, knowing that deer & moose will wander out onto the road.

What I really need is a bumper sticker that states something to the effect of: "If you can read this, you're too close!"
...And of course, the font would have to be kind of small...

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John Moriarty
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: Cambridge, UK
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 02-14-2003 02:29 PM      Profile for John Moriarty   Email John Moriarty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Again, some enterprising company should build a device that detects the "handshake" (locating) signal of any cell phone operating in close proximity to it, sounding an alarm. Such a device next to the ticket-taker would allow theatre personnel to politely ask for the customer to turn the cell phone OFF before entering the theatre.
A fine idea, but the difficulty would be persuading the phone to handshake at the right moment (they don't normally check in too often, so you would be very lucky if it checked in as they passed the ticket taker).

The only ideas I have had for getting round this problem would be either:

  • Install a micro mobile phone base station next to your detector and as it comes into range it should (if I understand how they work) check in. This is probably a non-starter as it would be very expensive and almost certainly require a transmitter.
  • Make them walk through an area that has no signal, so there phone checks in when they come out. Quite how big this would have to be to work I'm not sure, but there shouldn't be any problem.
As regards detecting phones, my PC speakers occasionally pick the handshake up when I'm sat at my desk, so it can't be too difficult to detect.
More plausible (I think) would be a system in the auditorium which detects and localises a phone (whilst handskaing or making/recieving a call). I guess you would you use direction finding recievers or look at phase diff's between recievers. Then you could identify the offender for suitable punishment at an appropriate point. I quite like the idea of a localised sprinkler system. [Wink]

It also occured to me whilst writing this that if the handshake contains the telephone number of the handset you could phone them and ask them to turn their phone off.

John

P.S. Sorry that this message was originally truncated. Not sure what went wrong (though I suspect the spell checker lost the last paragraphs) but I should have checked before leaving it.

[ 02-14-2003, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: John Moriarty ]

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 02-14-2003 06:48 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
ESN's are transmitted not phone numbers.

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 02-14-2003 08:25 PM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is a company that has designed interior wall panelling which won't allow cell phone frequencies to pass. Passive methods such as this one are currently legal in the US, though the last article I saw on the subject indicated the panels were still pretty expensive.

As for an alarm, there is such a device currently in manufacture, and could legally be used in the US. It has a sign that lights up when in close enough proximity to a cell phone.

The Israelis have an active device that you can't use... however, there appears to be a rather active underground for them here.

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Sean M. Grimes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: Lunenburg, MA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 02-15-2003 02:28 AM      Profile for Sean M. Grimes   Author's Homepage   Email Sean M. Grimes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
since leaving the theater business I have entered the cell phone business... to set proximity dectors it would all depend on which type of signal they were using... ie cdma, tdma, gsm, or iden. All of them have different polling of towers. But it would be harder to program a christie three cue automation then to tell the reciever what to look for. [Wink]

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 02-15-2003 05:29 PM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
from Michael G.:
... the point of my legal argument is that if it is illegal to have a cell phone in a theater... then a theater's management could not get into trouble for having a jammer because legally there should be no signals to jam... This is what we call a legal loophole.

Maybe... but one of the cell phone lobby's points is that an active jammer would have to be properly installed and operated in order to prevent jamming outside of the specific intended area (such as an auditorium or theatre perimeter). In the case of theatres, one has only to consider how well much of the booth equipment in this country is maintained to get a good picture how diligently a cell jammer would be monitored.

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Chad Calpito
Film Handler

Posts: 23
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 02-17-2003 01:05 PM      Profile for Chad Calpito   Email Chad Calpito   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think this Cell Phone Ban in theaters is a fantastic idea. I've been to a few movies where people are chatting on cell phones or those phones ringing. I also get complaints of those problems and I sometimes have to come out of the projection booth to help deal with the problem. It's annoying to me to have to deal with that. I just wish that the Cell Phone Ban would come here to California.

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Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1079
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-17-2003 02:42 PM      Profile for Barry Floyd   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Floyd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
There is a company that has designed interior wall panelling which won't allow cell phone frequencies to pass. Passive methods such as this one are currently legal in the US, though the last article I saw on the subject indicated the panels were still pretty expensive.

At the Architectural / Engineering firm I work at during the day, whenever we design a medical facility with X-Ray equipment, the interior of the X-Ray room is lined with lead lined drywall (Lead Lined Gypsum Board)

It is "heavy as lead" to install, but does an extremely effective job of preventive radiation from penetrating other areas of the medical facility. If a theatre owner wanted to go the expense, this would probably stop the "microwave" signals used for cell phones.

I have a Nokia 5165i cell phone for my personal use, and if I have it anywhere near my computer monitors, they (the monitors)absolutely go nuts whenever my phone rings. Almost looks like a DEGAUS function of the monitor.

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-17-2003 02:45 PM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One issue that will come up with cell phone detectors is use of the "silent" feature. My cell phone has ring, vibrate, and silent settings. If I turn the cell phone off, it will not keep track of missed calls. If I set it to "silent", it will not ring, but will keep track of people who called me, so after I leave the theatre, I'll know if anyone tried to call. A cell phone detector would detect my cell phone, even though it would be set to make no audible noises. Like someone else said, some computer speakers make a buzzing noise if a cell phone is nearby. Mine at work do that occasionally when my cell phone is on the desk, regardless of the computer speakers' volume setting).

Still, I would not mind of the theatre buildings were constructed in a way to not let the cell phone signals penetrate. I was in a restaurant last week in which cell phones would not work. It was a metal building.

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Dino Panagiotopoulos
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Windor, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 02-17-2003 10:56 PM      Profile for Dino Panagiotopoulos   Email Dino Panagiotopoulos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This might sound like a stupid question question yet Im still curious.........if speakers such as computer speakers can detect a "handshake" signal when a call comes in on a cellphone, why wouldnt larger speakers such as those in a theater be able to detect that and why you cant hear it?

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John Moriarty
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: Cambridge, UK
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 02-18-2003 08:32 AM      Profile for John Moriarty   Email John Moriarty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
if speakers such as computer speakers can detect a "handshake" signal when a call comes in on a cellphone, why wouldnt larger speakers such as those in a theater be able to detect that and why you cant hear it?
As far as I can tell (and it think it makes sense), the intereference is picked up at or before the amplifier. (If there is enough power to make that much noise without amplification, I would have expected some pretty serious health risks and other problems.) It is unlikely to be a problem therefore in cinemas as the phones in the auditorium are nowhere near as close to the amps as it would be at a computer (and there is normally a wall in the way in the way). I have seen phones picked up by guitar amps (when sat on top), so I guess if you put a mobile in the soundrack it might become a problem (depending on shielding of wires and amps). Of course, build quality is normally much better in cinema equipment than stuff for the domestic market.

John

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-18-2003 08:43 AM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dino:
The speakers themselves don't pick up the signal, the amplifier built in to the speaker system does. This is usually a low-cost unit with the minimum shielding required and the equally inexpensive signal and speaker cables from your sound card to it makes great antennas. I've found that making my own cables using good cable (8451 does well) with the shield connected at the amp end only solves the noise pickup problem. I have a 900MHz cordless phone that really interfered, now it is quiet.
Theatre amps are (probably) better shielded, and the speaker wires are so long that they make poor antennas at cell phone frequencies. Signal wiring is - hopefully - much better shielded and installed than computer speaker practice. In Toronto we have the CN tower right downtown with a few megawatts of TV, FM, and AM transmitters and we occasionally run into problems with radio stations playing unexpectedly in cinemas. Or in teeth. Proper wiring and grounding practice avoids this in the cinemas at least.

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