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Author Topic: The homeless, are they in YOUR backyard? Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 08-05-2003 05:28 PM                     Again, I have to underscore the fact that many if not the prevailing majority of homeless people are mentally ill. They don't have the same capabilities of logic (or even the grasp of reality) held by most "normal" people. So it is very presumptuous to assume "if they really want help they'll go get it." Concerning Las Vegas, Money magazine must be rating Las Vegas only by what they experience from the penthouse levels of the Bellagio Hotel. In spite of being a signmaker, I would not want to live there and would not want to bring any kids there on a vacation. You can't walk two steps in that town without seeing lots of flyers for hookers littering the sidewalk. Finally, it is easy to make fun of homeless people or just get pretty damned disgusted with them. I felt that way a lot living in New York. I recall things like waiting in the Staten Island Ferry terminal for the next boat and having no place on the benches to sit. Some bum sleeping on one of them let a urine stream roll down the whole damned thing. But what do you do? Kill the guy? My hatred is more appropriately directed to the greedy bastards mismanaging this country and allowing guys like that to have to sleep on the bench in the first place. Put a homeless man in a compactor or shredder. Nah. Lets throw some Enron and Worldcom executives in there instead. That would actually be appropriate.  |  IP: Logged Gerard S. Cohen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 975 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 08-05-2003 06:05 PM                     Last night I viewed another segment of Rick Burns' documentary on New York City, concerning the Great Depression of the 1930's, which showed hundreds of men, most wearing white collars, ties, suitjackets and fedora hats, lined up for blocks to receive a bowl of hot soup and a sandwich in wintertime New York. These men were homeless, part of the many millions of unemployed. New York City was the first to deal with their plight, by methods which Franklin Roosevelt initiated nationally in the dministrations' New Deal. Today, despite predictions of an economic recovery, the numbers of unemployed are still growing, and families with children are being made homeless through massive job layoffs and rising rents. Living on the streets will affect any individual's physical and mental health adversely. Without health insurance, sanitation, laundry and eating facilities, one looks and smells bad, cannot appear for an interview, loses self-respect and hope. [NYC, like most US cities, lacks public toilets; those in the subways were closed years ago.] Anti-social, self-destructive and criminal tendencies creep in and grow stronger, until they erupt and the working public becomes aware. quote: And what really pisses me off is the fact that many homeless profess to be Vietnam Vets, when they were actually never in the US Armed Forces to begin with! Actually, a great many homeless men and women in NYC ARE veterans of the Vietnam, Korean, and Gulf Wars. The Veterans Administration hospitals offer immediate triage, drug rehab programs, counceling, medical care, physical rehab, prostheses and special equipment, and outreach programs to try to contact those who need help. However funds are severely limited and frequently reduced by Congress, and it's very difficult to reach the homeless who are without addresses or telephones. And services are not free, except to veterans with service-connected disabilities--others must make co-payments. Veterans are often prone to homelessness, since adjesting from an all encompassing military environment where one follows orders to one in a society where one must fend for himself provides for a difficult period of adjustment for all demobilized veterans. Add to that the post-traumatic stress, substance abuse, lack of employement, etc., and life becomes more difficult. Unfortunately the present administration does not recognize the problem except to advocate "faith-based initiatives" so that the public's money can be spent on military ventures that enrich a few instead of the health and well-being of the nation's population. [ 08-05-2003, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Gerard S. Cohen ]  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 08-06-2003 05:59 AM                        The severe cuts in veteran services are hitting hard in the Rochester area: http://www.rochesterdandc.com/news/08060O1DUME_vameet06_news.shtml quote: The V.A.’s program, known as Capital Asset Realignment for Enhanced Service, or CARES, was launched last year in response to criticism that the agency was holding onto older, expensive facilities. The restructuring is meant to address the growing veterans’ populations in the South and Southwest. Does "CARES" really CARE???  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 08-06-2003 08:58 AM                     Asheville, NC is a new home for transient types. I went downtown a few months ago, and was dismayed to see how many people were sitting on the sidewalks begging for change. I got cursed by a 20-25 year old guy because I was ignoring his requests for a quarter. I was downtown yesterday and noticed that there are still many people just hanging around the parks and various public areas. Not many folks walking between the businesses either. In a previous post, I saw the homeless remarks about working for food. Same thing here. A friend of mine offered a guy with a sign a job raking his yard. It was fall, and it needed to be done every few days as the leaves fell. It takes about an hour to do a good job--I've done it--and this guy initially showed up, hemmed and hawed around playing with the rake handle--and left--taking the rake. We saw him later that week back on the street with his sign. I'm all for helping keep Goodwill, etc. up and running. I go to their thrift stores and buy a fair amount of stuff. They do alot for down-on-their-luck people, and give them jobs. These people that simply expect you to give them money so that they can just get another bottle of $1.09 beer... This irritates me. I'm working just to keep my home intact. My new job doesent really pay enough to do much more than that. At work, we have a transient sleeping behind our dumpster. I dont think there was a problem until he started using our back door as his personal urinal and toilet. We are finally getting rid of him. We started draining our washing machine water onto his mattress back there. I think that with all the layoffs and cuts, this is only the beginning. I rent appliances to many people in the public housing projects around here. Seems that 75% of them have 8-10 kids each, and many of the kids have kids of their own. How'd YOU like to grow up in something like this? When I go there to pick up something that the customer has stopped paying for weeks ago, I get cursed and threatened by the "adults" and the kids too! Like its all MY fault!! Well, its a job. Better than living in a box.  |  IP: Logged Greg Mueller Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1687 From: Port Gamble, WA Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-06-2003 09:11 AM                        I'm cold hearted about the homeless. With all the programs available (many mentioned above) it is hard to believe that anyone could be "homeless" unless they wanted to be. While I admit that there are some that have mental problems, there are answers and help for that as well. I believe it all boils down to choices and these (lets face it) bums have made the choice to not work and to depend on the naive generosity of others. It's my belief that more times than not the supporting of these bums is what makes being a bum "profitable". Take away the bleeding heart support and let them live or die. It's their choice. There's one bum who stands at the end of an off ramp by the local mall. I see these morons handing him money out the window of their cars frequently. He has his little sign that says he's homeless and has got 50 kids or something and will work for food etc etc etc. But you know what? He's always smoking a cigarette. What do those things cost now about $5 a pack? I say shape up or ship out.  |  IP: Logged Kristin Wahlund Film Handler Posts: 92 From: Eagan, MN Registered: Jul 2001 posted 08-06-2003 10:28 AM                     I, myself, have not seen our homelss guy. But only wo people have and at the same time, they were doing our morning perimeter check and saw him fast asleep on the matress. other than that no one else has seen him just the evidence that he has been there. I am beginning to think that it is not the only place that he may sleep considering a the soggy taco hasn't moved for a while. and about throwing the matress in the compactor, eww. who wants to touch that?! who knows where its been or what has happened to it. yuck.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 08-06-2003 02:10 PM                     Blame the ACLU for putting these people on the streets. Many are were for years institionalized for good reason, but the ACLU determined that they were being held without good cause and prevailed on the judicial system to have them released and to prevent others from being held.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 08-06-2003 03:30 PM                        IMHO, you can also blame those who closed or privatized mental care facilities, and then drastically reduced public mental health services to cut taxes (or use the money for something else). http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/welfare/july-dec97/homeless_12-23.html  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 08-06-2003 05:35 PM                        The homeless are not *literally* in my backyard, but there is a "secret" homeless camp about 2 blocks from my house. I'm on the edge of town in the hills, and there's this fairly large undeveloped parcel of land that's all wooded and secluded. There's been a small homeless encampment out in the middle of that for a long time. They don't bother anyone and all the area residents seem to look the other way.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 08-06-2003 06:29 PM                     The idea the ACLU is to blame for homeless people being on the street is absolutely laughable. I seem to recall comments from Alan Greenspan back in 1997 where he said the "economy" (or more likely THE FUCKING STOCK MARKET) was flourishing primarily over companies exploiting their workers and paying them less and less and less. Take away their benefits to expand profit margins. And then ship the damned jobs overseas to slave labor! All of these business planners and stock salesmen are fighting as hard as they can to put a positive spin on the current economic climate. The president is handing out a gimmie tax break to families with kids. All of this is in hope the CATTLE (well that's what our government thinks of us) will get out there and waste money in the "economy" instead of just saving it or paying bills. Here's the hard fact. The so called economy is 80% driven by consumer spending. The corporate parasites have downsized many out of any cost of living pay raises and eliminated most benefits. Most people cannot afford to spend shit on anything. And that is not going to change until the greediest .01% of the assholes up at the top realize (or begin to care) just what the hell they are doing to the rest of the world. Don't buy into the right wing smoke screen bullshit and don't bet on the DOW hitting 10,000 anytime soon (unless the executives are able to con enough dumbasses out of believing reality).  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-06-2003 07:57 PM                       quote: Asheville, NC is a new home for transient types. Bruce, when I used to service the booth up at Mars Hill College in the early 80s, I used to stay at a hotel in Asheville. The beggars used to harrass me about every other trip - they'd get pretty huffy about it sometimes, too, like you said. One chased me all the way to my truck once, flailing his arms, and cussing up a blue streak. I still liked working in that area, though.  |  IP: Logged Martin Brooks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 900 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 08-06-2003 08:38 PM                        I think some people on this Board are spending too much time listening to conservative trash-talk radio. There are a number of reasons for the increase in homelessness: 1. It used to be that relatively uneducated people could get a job in a factory, sometimes even with union benefits. But there's little manufacturing left in the US. 2. Most new jobs that are created are in the service sector and are minimum wage jobs. There aren't too many places in this country where one can survive on the minimum wage. 3. Although in some places, real-estate prices have only grown slightly above the inflation rate (there's an article in the New York Times about this today), in most big cities, real-estate values have increased at many times the inflation rate. In New York and other big cities, there used to be SROs - single room occupancy units that had a cheap rent. They've all been torn down and replaced by multimillion dollar co-ops. In all five boroughs of New York City, even in the worst neighborhoods, it's almost impossible to find even a studio for much under $1000 a month. 4. In spite of the above, the reality is that most homeless people are indeed mentally ill. But it wasn't the ACLU who got people released from institutions, it was the Reagan administration who closed numerous facilities for the mentally ill and they've never been reopened - not by subsequent Republican administrations and not by Clinton's administration either. Sure, it's very disturbing to have to deal with any homeless people and especially the mentally ill. I thought there was a big problem in NYC until I recently visited San Francisco, which had homeless people sleeping in almost every retail doorway in some neighborhoods. But if you want them off the streets, then you've got to be willing to have your communities spend for shelters and facilities for the mentally ill. If you just chase them away, you're just making it someone else's problem down the block or in the next neighborhood.  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 08-06-2003 09:25 PM                     Tim, did you work on the projectors in Moore Auditorium? I am trying to purchase them from the college!! Also, did you stay at the Interstate Motel? By the Civic Center? If so, thats why you were harassed. It is also known as the intercourse motel. Honest! I dont make this s*** up! This afternoon, I saw someone in well-worn tattered clothes walking in traffic during rush hour. He looked like he had no idea where he was. People sure knew that he was there, though. Traffic was crawling!  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-07-2003 01:20 AM                        quote: Blame the ACLU for putting these people on the streets THAT's a myth. The ACLU was the one which sued the Alabama & other public health systems to HOSPITALIZE the mentally ill. Emptying the hospitals, starting with the mentally ill, has always been a cost-cutting measure. The earliest example, & the one most held up as an example of how to save money by getting the mentally ill "Off the public dole", was when Reagan closed down California's mental hospitals & turned the patients out. Probably the most famous negative effect: murderer Herb Mullin on the streets. http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/weird/mullin/reagan_12.html  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 08-07-2003 02:17 AM                        Geez, people, this thing needs to go to the political forum, or everyone needs a time out. When one of these things degenerates to the point that the Democrats are blaming Ragan and the Republicans are pointing fingers at Clinton, this will never come to any sort of agreeable conclusion. If this thread can't be discussed without one side dumping on the politics of the other, the whole damned thing needs to go somewhere else (the trash?).  |  IP: Logged

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