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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Topic: No outside food or drink rules
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Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1079
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 03-06-2004 11:23 PM
I thought we had discussed this somewhere before! I still stick by our policy.
From what information I have available, I am only 1 of 3 drive-ins in the country that sell such a "permit". The "Bengie's" in Baltimore and the "Triway"... somewhere in Indiana.
It works for us. "Most" people just say, "It's ONLY $4.00... and besides... we still get to see 2 movies for six bucks!"
The "drive-in" is a totally different type of entertainment. When people go to the local indoor theatre, the theatre is usually just one of the several locations they may go on that particular evening. (i.e.: Go to the mall, go to ??? for dinner, then go catch the 9:15 show of whatever at the multiplex).
Usually... when Mom and Dad load up the kids for the weekend trip to the drive-in.... it's ALL they do on a Saturday night. Gates open at 6:30 /-, dinner at the theatre, two - 1 1 /2hr. - 2 hr. movies, then the 20-25 minute drive home.... it's 11:30 p.m. at the earliest.
Our Kitchen menu at the theatre offers more variety than any of the local restaurants in Watertown COMBINED. So... the ol' "You don't serve that here", usually won't work at our place.
We sum it up by telling most folks. "Instead of banning outside food and beverages LIKE THE INDOOR THEATRES DO, we let you bring as much food as you want.... you just pay $4.00 for the priviledge. Once we remind them how mean the indoor guys are... they hand over their $4.00 ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Erick Akers
Arse Kicker
Posts: 201
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 03-07-2004 12:41 AM
Just curious Barry,
How do you enforce your policy without overstepping the boundries of the law?
Sure you could ask someone to depart your D.I., but you run a public service business and when a patron has paid for service they are entitled to receive the services they paid for, or a refund (their choice not yours), so that leaves criminal trespass out of the question.
What if a truck driver; like our friend Tim, were to pay a visit to your establishment? As an OTR truck driver, his Rig becomes his legal home, or how about a retired couple in their RV? ![[Shrug]](graemlins/shrug.gif)
All out of legal bounds as far as a search is concerned.
One more question, how many of your patrons that buy a food permit and never make a purchase from your snack bar?
I'm not to sure of Bengie's policy today, but they used to be flexible on their food permit purchase; that is, if you made a purchase from the snack shack your food permit was refunded.
Just food for thought.
One more question,What is your policy if you catch someone having a little ![[sex]](graemlins/sex.gif) ?
1. Do you ask them to leave?
2. Call the police? ( ing in a public place is a misdemeanor)
3. Videotape them with a night vision camera? ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
[ 03-07-2004, 02:45 AM: Message edited by: Erick Akers ]
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Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1079
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 03-07-2004 09:17 AM
Hang on guys... you are talking like as if "I'm" doing something wrong here? What I'm doing is providing a means to support my family.... nothing aloof at all. Don't think for a minute we come across as "Food Nazi's"... it's not that way at all. We don't walk car-to-car and shine flashlights into folks private moments of their movie watching. And yes there's plenty of going on... most don't even bother to try to conceal it from view.
quote:
Sure you could ask someone to depart your D.I., but you run a public service business and when a patron has paid for service they are entitled to receive the services they paid for, or a refund (their choice not yours), so that leaves criminal trespass out of the question.
Conditions of our policies clearly states if they do not dispose of their food or buy an "Outside Food & Beverage Permit", we reserve the right to refuse to sell you a ticket. I'm sorry.... but if you cannot respect the same policies that everyone else on the lot does... in my opinion thet are not "Entitled" to jack ![[bs]](graemlins/bs.gif) .
quote:
I'm not to sure of Bengie's policy today, but they used to be flexible on their food permit purchase; that is, if you made a purchase from the snack shack your food permit was refunded.
Nope... never happened. I spoken with the owner way too many times and know of his opinion of "rewarding" those people who brought in their own outside food and beverages. He is adimately against it, and makes it well known.
quote:
Privilege? Holy Toledo, Barry! Perhaps you should consider your paying customers and treat them as a source of your income and not be so aloof.
Explain this: What other entertainment venue can you go to, where an admission is required, and "expect" to walk in with any amount of your own food from home?
I don't know about your areas of the country, but here in middle Tennessee the answer is NONE.
NFL Tennessee Titians game... NO
NASCAR Superspeedway... NO, not anymore.
NHL Nashville Predators game.... NO.
Opry Mills Regal IMAX 20.... Hell NO.
Regal "Hollywood 27"... NO.
Carmike "Thorobred 20.. NO, NO, NO...
If a group of patrons walked up to your boxoffice window with 2 Happy Meals, 2 Meat Lovers Supreme Pizzas, a sackful of Subway sandwiches and a grocery sack full of 2 liters.... how far would they get??? EXACTLY!!! Then why should my theatre be any different?
I don't buy into the ol', "It's a drive-in, it's expected I can do whatever I want and bring whatever I want." My theatre is a first run commercial movie theatre, that just happens to be a drive-in. Maybe if those people who demanded to be "entitled" to bring in whatever they want stopped long enough to realize that MAYBE if they would have supported the efforts of the drive-in and it's owner.... that "good 'ol drive-in" they used to attend wouldn't now be a Walmart, Kroger, Lowe's, strip mall, or housing complex.
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Jack Ondracek
Film God
Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 03-07-2004 10:27 AM
...from Brad:
quote:
Jack, care to share your policy wording?
Sure Brad. We came up with this after months of discussion with staff, management and our internal legal department:
quote:
NO OUTSIDE FOOD OR DRINK
It's brief, concise and easy to point to when asking a patron, "what about this policy says you can bring in your KFC?"
Besides, it was also already on the door, left there by the chain that closed the place before us, so we decided just to hang on to a good thing, save the money it would cost to remove it... and just enforce the rule!.
Regarding Drive-Ins:
I'm probably the more-vocal "other side" of the "no outside food" concept that Barry and a few others subscribe to. I have a drive-in where the nearest food or beverage threat is a couple of miles away. I grew up working in drive-ins, none of which had any problem with outside food. My concession business is to the point that I'd just about have to tear down & replace my building in order to do much more business in it. For those reasons, and the admitted fact that I'm a traditionalist & set in my ways, I don't charge a "food permit", and am amazed at how well some owners have made it work. That being said, some drive-ins have made this concept work, and it seems to be a positive thing for them. As Barry says, they all seem to be related to the policy that was pioneered at the Bengies.
Barry makes a valid point that the Bengies' owner does... that being that there's no automatic "right" to bring outside food into a drive-in. The two of them also either started their businesses from scratch with this policy in place, or were feisty enough to change their rules and stick by them while retraining their clientele. They've created a revenue stream that I don't have... maybe even lowering the amount of outside trash that in my case, I have to pay to truck out of here. Good for them! However, after going through the "retraining" of dropping carload prices and bringing my per-cap pricing up to first-run levels, I'm comfortable with leaving the rest to what I recall as tradition.
...from Erick:
quote:
How do you enforce your policy without overstepping the boundries of the law?
Sure you could ask someone to depart your D.I., but you run a public service business and when a patron has paid for service they are entitled to receive the services they paid for, or a refund (their choice not yours), so that leaves criminal trespass out of the question.
I'm REALLY glad you brought this up, Erick. After more than 17 years of "ejecting without refunds", more than a few with the assistance of law enforcement personnel, I had a newly-hired sheriff deputy and a junior County prosecutor test me on this very issue last year. After they found out I was serious about letting the case go to a full jury trial, a senior prosecutor got ahold of it and dropped it flat, and I now have the paperwork to show any other misinformed deputy.
Think about this for a moment. If you go to a sporting event and misbehave, do you think you'll get your money back as Security is showing you the door? Probably not. If you go to a nightclub that requires a cover charge at the door and get kicked out for being an ass before the band starts, do you get your money back? Not likely. Your payment bought you a license to be on the property. You are no longer trespassing. You have an expectation that you'll receive the service that you paid admission for, but you do not get carte blance to create your own personal rule set.
Yes, you may have been sold the expectation of "service". However, you have to be careful about how you apply the word "public", and the rights you might believe that transfers away from the business operator. As a private businessman, operating on private property, I have the right to set the rules of behavior that I expect of all people who pay for admission to my business, in some cases, even if I dont post all of those rules on a sign. If I can show that I apply my rules evenly to the crowd as a whole (not counting exceptions for things like ADA), I'm pretty safe if I eject someone without a refund.
As a member of the public, I think you can probably make an argument for a refund, if a broken rule is unsigned and only a matter of your opinion against mine. I'll generally err on the side of legal safety and offer you a refund if you change your behavior or leave quietly. However, if a patron violates a posted policy (like Barry's "no outside food" sign), or something that's clearly a matter of common sense, like a law (drug use, underage drinking, sneaking in without payment, etc.) or if I have to call law enforcement to help me out, I can eject them without refund on the premise that they caused an unreasonable or illegal disruption to my business that I would not generally allow all other customers to engage in.
In my case, I normally eject the entire carload without refund. This causes a little more strife if a patron argues that he paid or was not directly involved in the problem at hand. The other side however, is that those patrons almost always knew, or reasonably should have known that something was going on in the car that was not within the law or the business's policies. By remaining silent as the car is passed through the boxoffice admission process, those patrons become "accessories". Their inactions support their ejection, along with the person(s) directly involved.
For your part, you can take me to small claims court, if you feel you have a more persuasive argument for a refund than I'll be able to present. However, If I want you off the property, I can legally expect that you will be gone. We'll deal with the fallout later.
The only people that are offended by policies like these are the ones directly involved, or those who choose to accompany them. It's pretty hard to argue your case when I can show that you were the only person among a couple thousand others who stepped out of line and got tossed for it. Personally, I think Barry's in pretty safe territory here.
While not likely to be applied as drastically, a chain can empower(I hate that word) a local manager by providing written instructions for handling outside food and customer behavioral issues. The risk involves an employee's interpretation of those instructions going beyond corporate intent.
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