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Author Topic: I am done with the theatre... Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 03-13-2004 04:48 AM                        Actually, it does sometimes (the burning, I mean). It all comes down to a very important question which you have to ask yourself and answer to yourself truthfully: did I deserve this treatment or not? If you are absolutely certain you didn`t deserve what you got and have nothing to blame yourself for (again, you have to be really truthful to yourself), then go ahead, don`t just burn, but blow up the bridge behind you with a loud bang. Get for yourself out of the situation whatever you can. I have never been laid off in my life, except for once when my employer went bankrupt. OK, that happens, but in that particular case, he didn`t behave very well. In fact, he lied and cheated and hurt a lot of people, not just me, but people who worked under me and for which I felt responsible. And in that one case, I sued his ass and mobilized all means and contacts I had to hurt him back as bad as possible. And he got what he deserved. Because you should also have a professional pride. If you did your job well, but were still treated badly, then you just owe it to yourself to strike back. And you shouldn`t worry about keeping that bridge intact, because you should never want to go back, or have to go back. Blow up that bridge, move on, get yourself in a better situation from which you can laugh about those people. The worst that can happen to you is being scared. Being scared of maybe having no other choice, of having to go back to those circumstances. No - if you are unhappy with what you had, don`t be afraid, don`t look back. Analyze what you can do to raise yourself above that level, and do it.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 03-13-2004 07:45 AM                        quote: Actually, it does sometimes (the burning, I mean). It all comes down to a very important question which you have to ask yourself and answer to yourself truthfully: did I deserve this treatment or not? You also have to ask yourself a somewhat more pragmatic question: what are the short-term and long-term implications of burning or blowing up any given bridge? I agree with Michael that sometimes they can be positive, especially if that bridge is being stood on by someone who doesn't have a very good reputation. But the cinema industry is a relatively small one, and news travels fast. I, too, have thankfully never actually been sacked. The nearest I've come to it was a short-term contract not being renewed after I'd unofficially been promised that it would be: as in Michael's case, the reason was that the employer simply ran out of money. But I am currently caught in the middle of a bitter dispute/grievance procedure between three colleagues. In many ways it's poisoning the whole department, and is being made worse by some breathtakingly bad management. Basically, the person who is the line manager of all three is delaying the formal proceedings, procrastinating and failing to address the fact that the two individuals who have instigated the action are refusing to carry out a lot of their workload until it's resolved, adding to the pressure of those of us caught in the crossfire. I think she just hopes that the problem will go away of its own accord, which anyone with an miligram of common sense can see that it sure as hell won't. The two instigators are also spreading poisonous publicity about their 'target' far and wide, and however justified a lot of it is, I can't see it doing them any good. Their target, by contrast, is saying and doing absolutely nothing, and will therefore be able to portray himself as the victim of two embittered wack jobs with chips on their shoulders when the formal stuff eventually happens. Sorry, Gerard, but I cannot agree with you about unions - not from my experience, at least. In every workplace I've been in with an organised union presence, it has been a destructive presence. That experience has been that they protect their own activists, and sod everyone else. The most recent example is a an active dispute between the 'recognised' union in my workplace - to which only two out of the 15 members of my immediate department belong - over pay. They're rejecting a 3.75% pay offer on the basis that our pay has gone down in real terms over the last 20 years, and demanding some loony figure like 15%. The reality is that we're being offered almost double the rate of inflation, plus, as public sector employees, we also get a far more generous pension (i.e. one based on our final salary at retirement rather than a money purchase scheme) than most of our private sector counterparts. We should have got that pay rise last August, but because of the dispute, which resulted in two days of strikes a fortnight ago, it hasn't come through. If the dispute isn't resolved by the end of this month, we'll eventually have to pay a much higher rate of tax on the back pay when we do eventually get it, because of the change in financial year. Thankfully, being single and with no dependants, this situation isn't hurting me. But it certainly is hurting some of my colleagues with young families and all the financial commitment that implies. And they are facing the loss of several hundred pounds to the tax man thanks to the stupid demands of a small minority of union activists (who not only have no dependants, but one of them has a high-earning partner, too). I'm sure that there are some very fair trade unionists who have done a lot of good, but as a general rule unions are bad news, IMHO. Far better to work towards an effective, independent and accessible judicial mechanism for safeguarding employees' pay and working conditions. Gosh, what a long post! Now back to mothballing the car...  |  IP: Logged Bob Maar (Maar stands for Maartini) Posts: 28608 From: New York City & Newport, RI Registered: Feb 2001 posted 03-13-2004 09:00 AM                        Just for the record: In New York City manager's in the ligitimate theatres are unionized, as are the ushers, box office personnel and cleaners.  |  IP: Logged Gerard S. Cohen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 975 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 03-13-2004 10:47 AM                     Just as we have had both good and bad experiences with managements, so too have some of us had favorable and unfavorable experiences with unions. But I have seen in recent decades a strong trend towards treating labor with contempt on the part of selfish employers seeking profits for themselves and their stockholders without regard for the rights and just rewards of their employees' labor. This trend has been aided and abetted by legislation dissolving the secure gains made by decades of workers' sacrifices, and by the appointment of watchdogs chosen from the ranks of anti-labor management. It's all well and good to counsel those unjustly fired to exercise courage in fighting back with legal means, or to enter another line of work, or to become a self-employed entrepreneur, or to enter a re-training program. But not everyone has the financial resources to hire lawyers, the youth and strength to start over, or the abilitiy to watch his family suffer through his lack of income in an era of widespread unemployment where the only jobs being created pay below the poverty level. The courageous formed unions to protect workers including those unable to fight workplace injustice alone. The present emphasis on "rugged individualism" is often a rationalization for greed and indifference to the honest labor of workers.  |  IP: Logged Brent Mahaney Film Handler Posts: 43 From: Bowling Green, Kentucky, USA Registered: Dec 2001 posted 03-13-2004 06:44 PM                    Sometimes burning bridges is the best thing to do because it opens up new paths. And another thing...when you work your butt off for a company and they come along for no good reason (well, they have a reason...$$$$) and tell you to hit the road, it pisses you off. Corporations don't care about people. They don't care about me and they don't care about most of you. That's just life in a market-driven society. And everybody who says, "Oh, well they may hire you back...just be nice to them,"...I don't know about you, but I've got this little thing called PRIDE. I would never step foot in that theater again, nor would I ever accept a job from them again. Just my opinion, though. I'm 33, so I'm still relatively young. Maybe you older guys are right about the bridge thing and I'm wrong...in fact, that's probably the case. But I just had a friend who worked in a position for 25 years get fired to dump her salary. It just rubs me the wrong way.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 03-13-2004 10:55 PM                       quote: Once again the reason workers form unions becomes manifest. Too bad a particular motion picture union did not keep that firmly in mind.  |  IP: Logged William Leland III Master Film Handler Posts: 336 From: Charleston, SC, Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-16-2004 09:13 AM                        Travis, sorry to hear about your job. if it makes u feel any better i just quit a $22,000+ job, 401k, all the overtime i need and 7 days off out of a month (shift work 12 on, 12 off). i was hired at JW Aliminum a few weeks ago and already quit. the first week, i made more $$ than i do at IMAX in a month. the job wasn't for me an i knew going in it wasn't for me, but i tried and it didn't work out. i hope you find what you are lookinig for, my advice, the next job you get make sure u want to do it. you have to ask your self, do i want to work there. that's my advice.  |  IP: Logged Ken McFall Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 615 From: Haringey, London. Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-16-2004 09:46 AM                     Travis, as with everyone else I'm sorry to hear you've lost your job. I've been through the same thing last year and it is devastating and can take a long time to get over. My situation came about simply because they decided they didn't want to pay my wage. You seem to suggest they have some old issue they are dragging up to justify their actions. Out of self respect I wrote a web site and published all of the letters involved for everyone to see. I'd learnt a long time ago that the one thing employers don't like is the truth. For me the web site was an exercise in dishing the dirt on my ex employers but also standing up and being counted.... it also provided some sort of closure and allowed me to move on. Older wiser and more than a little bitter. I would suggest you need to find some way to 'close' the issue that will leave you with your self respect intact. What form it takes is up to you.... just make sure if you do dish the dirt that its true, that way it will hurt them the most when you metaphorically give them the I find that most employers are the same but I will stand against them when they risk peoples lives through their stupidity and self interest for the simple reason that I have principles. If I were to do nothing I'd be no better than them and that is somthing that I will never allow to happen, unfortunatly that possibly makes me unemployable but that's a price you pay if you believe you are in the right. Leo, as for unions being a bad thing I could almost guarantee that your current wages and holidays etc would be much much lower than they are if not for the stand that principled people had made in the past. Don't take the benefits if you are not prepared to make a stand to earn them. Regards.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-16-2004 10:04 AM                     "In New York City manager's in the ligitimate theatres are unionized, as are the ushers, box office personnel and cleaners." I heard a rumor that In New York even the legitimate light bulbs, wiring and conduits are unionized ! Mark  |  IP: Logged Martin Brooks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 900 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 03-16-2004 08:17 PM                        It is definitely a drag to get fired or laid-off, but I have always found upon leaving a job that it always worked out for the best, although I will also readily admit that it's pretty tough to find a decent job in this economy. I would strongly advise against burning bridges. I wouldn't go back and kiss anyone's behind, but don't do anything destructive. Especially in an age of corporate consolidation, you NEVER know who from your past might be your employer in the future, even if it's a different industry. The company I worked for in the 80s sold my division to another company, which in turn sold it to the company I worked for in the 90s. Sometimes when companies offer decent severance agreements, they make you sign a document stating that you won't file for unemployment. I've done that, but it was financially worth it. Since you're not a minority, a female, over 50 or disabled, you don't fit into any protected groups. I was never a big fan of unions. I felt that unions helped bad workers more than good ones. In order to avoid bias by an employer, unions had tight rules for salaries, promotions, benefits, etc., but those rules worked against workers who were better than average, as I felt I was. And in the big companies I worked for, I was always treated great and had great benefits. And I also felt that unions, with ridiculous work rules, got in the way of being productive and getting things done. But we've taken many steps backwards. Companies now don't give a damn about anything but profits, and even profits are only considered in the short term. So today, the majority of new jobs pay poverty wages, have few benefits and that's if they're not outsourced in the first place. Execs with bonus plans based upon profit and or stock price come first and the stockholders come second. Customers come next and employees come last. So I'm all in favor of unions making a comeback.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 03-17-2004 01:52 AM                        quote: Leo, as for unions being a bad thing I could almost guarantee that your current wages and holidays etc would be much much lower than they are if not for the stand that principled people had made in the past. In the very distant past, possibly, but certainly not in my working lifetime. I have no problem with unions representing and defending individuals in formal proceedings related to disputes with their employers - in fact, that's about the one constructive thing they probably do do - just as long as they don't drag unconnected third parties into it. But in reality they tend to put activists first and rank and file due-payers second: hence situations such as the recent threatened shutdown of the Underground over the sacking of a train driver and union shop steward who was found with several empty beer cans (and a not-so-empty one) in his cab. Can't really say much more without getting into political territory.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Procyk Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1842 From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 03-18-2004 10:10 AM                     I was going to say not to burn the bridge, that sometimes bombing them works better... but Michael beat me to it! Really, the defacation example was a means of illustrating a retaliation option to the extreme. As would be letting moths or crickets loose in the theater, or purchasing a cell phone for the sole purpose of hiding it in a seat or something and calling it incessently during shows. All in all, just suggestions from a creative mind. I assume everyone here has some sense of reason and could judge for themselves whether they choose to explore those options, I just put them on the table. That bridge analogy has always gotten to me. Why do I want a bridge to exist if I never intend to go BACK across it? And if it's such a rickety [crotchety] bridge with [ass]holes and [butt]cracks, then NO ONE should ever have to cross it... =TMP=  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 03-18-2004 04:40 PM                     I started working during summers and Christmas holidays way back when I was still in high school. Not too long after graduation I lucked into a job with Pan American World Airways and things were great. I had an interesting job (Flight Operations) with lots of responsibility -- especially for someone my age at the time. Airline workers enjoy cool benefits, too. We got free travel on Pan Am and discounts at hotels, rental car companies and on other airlines. I was also earning three times what I made at any of those part-time jobs. I felt very secure at Pan Am. After all it was an established, respected, multinational corporation. Pan Am's logo was the #3 most recognizable logo in the world -- right behind Mickey Mouse and Coca-Cola. I liked my job and was good at it. I was even being reviewed for a supervisory position. And then the company filed for bankruptcy and closed down within a year. They even took the staplers when they packed up the office equipment! In recent times, we had witnessed the demise of Eastern Airlines and things weren't looking too good for TWA. I considered my options and decided to pursue my interest in cinema. The airline industry was "experiencing some unexpected turbulence" and it would be difficult/impossible to have a sense of job security at that time. So a change of scene would be welcome. Years later, the notion occurred to me that I may never have applied to college if Pan Am had not gone bankrupt. So some good had come of it. I returned from college and got a job as a projectionist at the local multiplexes, thanks to some part-time work during my college years. Soon after, I was promoted to a managerial position to oversee the upgrading of existing equipment and then a series of installations which followed. The company went public and there was a huge response to the IPO. These guys were on the move and I felt secure once again. And then -- just a few days before 2003 drew to a close -- I was informed that the company would be sold to the competition (who would now enjoy a monopoly). Despite glowing recommendations, the new owners decided against keeping some of us. Myself included. What have I learned? Never take a job for granted. Things can change drastically at a moment's notice...through no fault of your own. Plan for tough times as though they are guaranteed and be prepared to adapt should the reality of your situation ever change. Without a doubt, I went through a period of anger and depression. I felt frustrated and all of that. I think it's only part of the natural grieving process. Now, however, I look forward to the new opportunities. I know there are greater things ahead of me. It also helps to remember that we aren't the first people to lose a job and we won't be the last. These unfortunate events happen every single day. Very rarely is it ever the end of the world. [Edit: I forgot to add something very important. Good analogy or not, you DON'T want to burn any bridges. Even if you don't get a letter of recommendation, you still don't need to have a past employer that you're afraid to list on a resume...or a "prior arrest" for vandalism, etc.] Best wishes, Travis. [ 03-18-2004, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: Manny Knowles ]  |  IP: Logged Kevin Wale Expert Film Handler Posts: 167 From: Guymon, OK USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 03-18-2004 05:08 PM                     I've worked at a place or two a second time where I know for a fact that I would have every right to have burned and blown up bridges. But, I didn't. I don't want to be so prideful that if I need a job for a bit that I can't get one. I know what I did was right, and agreed upon by management. I know that I worked very hard and cared very very much for the place I was in charge of and then some. I know that I couldn't help it that choices were made that made it impossible for me to do the things that would have prevented things that happened to me even though I mentioned that the chosen situation wasn't how it should be. That is all that matters. I can sleep at night. I don't want to go do things that make it to where I can't. Who cares if no one would know it was me... I would know. And, I've done some pretty stupid things in life that I'm glad people forgave me and didn't do to me what I may have deserved.  |  IP: Logged Travis Hubrig Expert Film Handler Posts: 175 From: Minot ND, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 04-25-2004 04:53 PM                     Wow again, thanks for the support A little update, I filed for unemployment... and just recently started getting the benefits. Two days after getting fired I applied for a new job, and just last week I found out that I got it. I will be starting next month with the BNSF Railroad. And I extremely excited about it. Yes Gerard, it's a union job! Great benefits and I have lots of friends that work there also, as Minot is a railroad town. I see my termination at the theater as an omen now. As I wait to start on the railroad I have been working a little at the golf course to keep myself busy. Right now I am financially drained but feel great about where my life is going. Once again, thanks for the support and now I will try to stop in a contribute to the site a bit more.  |  IP: Logged

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