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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
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Author
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Topic: Skateboarding films & vandalism
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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene
Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 05-27-2005 05:37 PM
quote: Joe Beres
What do you know about skateboarding? Your generalizations prove an ignorance in your thought and an intolerance not at all unlike those of racism, classism and sexism. You should learn a little more about what you are speaking about before you make such foolish and caustic statements.
More than you realize. As for my generalizations proving some form of ignorance, not really. It isn't intolerance, racism, classism, sexism or any other ism that anyone can think of.
There is a greater point to be made, however at this time I am limited in my time to respond. I do promise a greater explanation and response on sunday, as I am deep in work right now.
Anyone who knows me knows how over the edge I can be on some of my comments. Never intended to offend however. Instead, I only intend to provoke thought, conversation, and ideas.
Anyone who truly knows me knows that what has been suggested here of me so far, according to what has been interpreted, is so far off the bar.
So sunday, I will finish my thouhts on my original statement, folow up on the rest of what has been said, and all in a very respectful manner, because really, that is all I am ever intending.
So SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!!!!
Ciao
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 05-28-2005 01:58 PM
We have a good number of skaters in my area. Our city has tried to do what it can to accomodate anyone into skating or "grinding." We have a skate park on the south side of town next to a large sports complex. Fort Sill has rollerblade hockey matches and stuff like that in one of their old blimp hangars.
Still, we see a few skaters using other public places (like the front of the main library or courthouse steps) as their playgrounds. I can't recall them tearing up anything there. However, many of those kids inflict serious injuries on themselves all the time.
And that raises an even more serious point than skate enthusiasts vandalising theaters. Most of the kids skating around here have NO health insurance coverage. Many are from low income families. They have no way to pay for broken wrists, cracked ribs or, God forbid, a serious head injury. The tax payers pick up the tab for that. And then our extremely greedy health care industrial complex uses such things as a good excuse to further jack up health insurance premiums, frequency of costly lawsuits, and generally much higher health care bills.
America's health care system sucks much ass. I don't care if our country has the best medical technology. It's useless as tits on a bull if 95% of Americans have no way to afford it. But while we have to live under this grossly stupid system, we need to do what we can to minimize our risks and thus lower the costs. There is a great deal of growing scorn for cigarette smokers and overeaters. But I don't see any social pressure on people acting like they're in an episode of Jackass. IMHO, I don't think its very fair for someone to go out and do highly risky stunts and then expect everyone else to pay for it when that person gets badly hurt. If I try skating down some stairway hand rail, fall off and break some bones, I should have to pay for 100% of the bill for taking such a huge risk.
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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene
Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 05-28-2005 02:16 PM
I am chiming in early, I found about 20 minutes to finish things up today, while trying to clear out my work before memorial day.
SO.... BIG DEEP BREATH.. Here goes...
Much has been said now about what I have said, and I have said a couple of things around and all of this is out of hand. So let's go back to the beginning and sort all this out.
First of all, I am the LEAST racist person around. I am also one of the least judgemental people. You may not think that from some of the things I have said hear and around, however when one does have an opinion, as I often do, it is formed from careful thought, experience, and wisdom.
It all started when I answered to the following post...
quote: Don Anderson
Sounds like you don't like skaters
Now my response, which I will post here in a second, I admit was a little harsh, however I stand behind it and I will explain why.
quote: Dave Williams
It's not simply a question of liking skaters or not. The true question is what are skaters contributing to our society.
1. Damaged Sidewalks
2. Ripped and Scarred Railings
3. Drug and Alcohol usage by Minors
4. Running people over with thier skateboards
5. Loitering
6. A general feeling of "FU" to the world for no apparent reason
7. Vandalism at will when "THE MAN" tells you to move on
Skaters, Gang Bangers, Alchoholics, Rapists, Murderers, Nuns, they are all the same.
My question is valid. What are Skaters contributing? If anyone has positive contributions please list them, don't just simply fight me on my point only.
quote: Ethan Harper
Wow, that was very racist.
My response to this was admittedly emotional. I should have taken a moment or perhaps a day to really breath and respond with rationality.
So my rational response is to ask you to pick up a dictionary and educate yourself on what racism actually is. Skaters are a group of people that engage in an activity, not a group of people who are there beyond thier control. An activity does not denote race, nor did I denote race. I did not like the accusation, I did not appreciate the insinuation of a personal attack, and did not try to single anyone out as a "skater", or by virtue of such bieng evil or whatever.
I am sure you are a very nice person. Probably not even racist. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
quote: Ethan Harper
According to a dictionary, a race can also be defined as Humans considered as a group. He said that every person associated within the Skater group is bad which is not fact.
Here is a more detailed description of "race", as described at dictionary.com...
quote:
A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
A genealogical line; a lineage.
Humans considered as a group.
Biology.
An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies.
A breed or strain, as of domestic animals.
A distinguishing or characteristic quality, such as the flavor of a wine.
So yes, "humans as a group" is correct, but not as you mean it. It means that all humuns, as a group, are collectively the "human race", but there is no "skater race".
I did not say that all people who belong to the skater group are bad people, however I did imply that skaters in general are not productive in thier skater activities, and more often than not cause damage to their surroundings.
Is it fair to say this?
quote: Joe Beres
What do you know about skateboarding? Your generalizations prove an ignorance in your thought and an intolerance not at all unlike those of racism, classism and sexism. You should learn a little more about what you are speaking about before you make such foolish and caustic statements.
I was a skater as a young person. I like most skaters sucked at it. But like every skater I have ever come across, other than one, did drugs, drank heavily, vandalized, caused trouble, etc. I have known hundreds of skaters, and only one was not as I described. However I did not know him but for two minutes. So as for Tony Hawk, I cannot speak. However every other skater that I either knew in the past or came across in my professional life, excepting for mr hawk, has not failed to dissapoint.
I am not saying that people are not infallible, nor am I saying that they cannot change. I know several that changed and have become very successful people in thier own right, myself included.
My opinions are not foolish, but yes they are caustic. It is likely that there just might be somewhere, skaters that are also members of the greater good that don't do the things I stated. I would like to meet them, and I bet there are a few of them here on this site.
My apologies for lumping them all in one group as if all were inherently evil. I never intended to offend anyone of the law abiding skater population, whomever and whereever they may be.
quote: Brad Miller
Dave, I have met you in person. Ethan has more of a tan than you do. What is your point there??? I just don't get it. Are you saying you actually get pulled over by the police for not having pale skin, or are you speaking on behalf of some friends of yours per their experiences?
I was much darker in my younger years. I suffered much at the hands of the well meaning police. When my grandmother, who was very dark, was younger, was constantly turned away from stores, restaraunts, hotels etc, for her skin color, as was my mother.
Luckily, as my family gets older, our skin gets lighter. When I was born, my mother had to constantly defend her poor baby who everyone thought was adopted (that was me). I was so much darker than her.
Brad, my respons as I said earlier here today was purely emotional. I should have given it much more thought than I did, and much more than I usually do.
quote: Martin Brooks
Huh? You think some 15 year old on a skateboard is the same as a rapist or murderer? Let's get some perspective here. In NYC, I rarely see any skateboarders causing any trouble. They may do some slight damage to the concrete steps in the park, but that's about it.
And I would guess that drug and alcohol abuse among skateboarders is less than those of the same age in the general population who don't pursue any outside interests (but that's just a guess.)
And nuns are equivalent to rapists and murderers? I'm no fan of organized religion, but what do you have against nuns? Did one hit you with a ruler once?
The answer is yes, I did get hit a few times. But in general your answer is that yes I lump them together, however I should have gone in to greater detail.
Just like skaters are linked by the board and not by the behavior, I linked the lot of them by the anti-social behavior. In reality, any group that is not of the considered norm is therefore anti-social. Just bieng social in your own group is not necessarily social.
Quite often, it is an anti-social and negative inward view that does lead someone to an activity or group that can accept them for how they percieve themselves. For the murderer and rapist they commit the act for the power it gives them, the feeling is thier self assessed socialality. For the skater and or gang banger, it is the feeling of family that is quite often lost in thier own, and for the nun, who knows, but for whatever reason they have decided to become the abstinent brides of christ and love to hit small children on the knuckels with thier yard sticks.
All in all, the only point I was trying to make is that in general, skaters can and sometimes do forget that they must respect the point of others, and understand that by simply engaging in the act of skating, they are causing damage, and must respect how they are seen, but sometimes they fail to do so and are viewed rather negatively.
I am excited to see lords of dogtown, but will wait for the DVD, as I am all to aware of what I will be dealing with, and just don't want to take the chance of a disrupted show.
This is my experience, and I know it may not be others, so if you get good skaters, more power to you, and my blessings go with you as well.
Nothing but love for all of us!!! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Ciao
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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene
Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 05-28-2005 04:34 PM
Well I hope that it wouldn't be, anything provoking. However, knowing me, I am anything but non-provoking, at least when I write.
I know I set this whole thing off, something I try to avoid. However, even I am able to see that I was not very clear in my assessment of skaters in general, and instead lopped them all into one group, or "race" of skaters, albiet unintentionally.
Of course I could just go back and "edit" my original comments, however that would be cheating. I instead stand by what I say, and also stand by the stupid dumb ass things I say, either way, you learn to either keep your trap shut and just don't start it up, or you do what I do.
Ciao
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![[fu]](graemlins/fu.gif)
That's what I want to say to skateboarders....ofcourse that's what many say to me. I don't really hate them, I don't understand their sport at all, but more power to them. I just don't see why it's my problem that they don't have a proper place to skate
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