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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
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Author
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Topic: Old style marquees (Snap-Lok letters)
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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-02-2005 11:52 PM
quote: Bobby Henderson
Businesses don't have sign companies running around removing sign face panels in advance of a hurricane. There's no practical way to have that done. The only thing a business can do is have the sense to buy a well-built sign up front (instead of the cheapest piece of junk available) and have the thing insured.
Yes they do, or they take the panels down themselves. I'll take some pictures next approaching hurricane. They take down the letters, panels, & pull out the lighting tubes. Admittedly, some do not, but some folks don't board their windows, either.
If you're impatient, you could call the Loew's or Saenger in New Orleans (their staffs don't roll over unexpectedly) & ask if they do.
(edit, realizing the insurance angle should be addressed):
quote: Bobby Henderson
But any Lexan or acrylic face is eventually going to give way when exposed to a strong enough wind -or impacted with flying debris.
And so that being even, repairs & insurance costs will be more with electronic signs, because what's behind the panel is more expensive. Again, if you take the panel off (of a hanging-letter sign), you haven't even got that expense.
Also, you're in Oklahoma & are likely more familiar with tornadoes, but hurricanes are different. They're essentially 4 or 5 hours of being in a blender with varying weights of debris, with some advance warning before the event. Even if you leave the sign up, a well-placed streetlight or road sign will do more damage, & more costly damage, to an electronic sign. Boom goes a panel & the lamps behind, to be replaced, or boom goes the panel & the LED array, etc. behind.
Being aware that hurricane damage is variable due to luck of the draw with the type of debris, pulling down the panels & lamps saves that replacement cost from lighter debris like road signs which may hit the front. That damage would be costly & a big, rate-hiking insurance claim on an electronic sign. Moving up in damage, even a well-placed streetlight after the panels are out would result in just a sheet metal job on the box, with still far more expensive damage if it had been an electronic.
Yes, I've seen eviscerated electronic signs after hurricanes. Electronic signs are for big-bucks casinos. Almost all other flashy new electronic signs destroyed by hurricanes & tornadoes are replaced by hanging-letter signs which will be less expensive to protect or replace after the next hurricane.
(But for all the Tornado Alley cachet, the US gulf coast has about the same frequency of tornadoes setting off that screeching EMA box:
http://www.edgetech-us.com/Map/MapTornado.htm
Also, F3 & F5's aren't exclusive to Tornado Alley; the grouping is pretty, but the coastal states get them too:
http://www.tornadochaser.net/tornalley.html
You'll see that the most frequent city/county distribution includes less OK & TX, & more MS, AL, &^ other states. The Tornado Alley grouping of frequency attracts the eye, but spot occurrences of equal intensity fall more randomly outside.
Yeah, we live the wind damage-managing life down here on the coast. I see that Huntsville AL is #5 on the list of top 9 Cities for Long Track F3 to F5 Tornadoes in the United States from 1880 to 2003; I wonder if one carried Evans off to Munchkin-land.
[ 08-03-2005, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: William Hooper ]
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-03-2005 11:11 PM
quote: William Hooper
Yes they do, or they take the panels down themselves. I'll take some pictures next approaching hurricane. They take down the letters, panels, & pull out the lighting tubes. Admittedly, some do not, but some folks don't board their windows, either.
I still find that hard to believe for a couple reasons. If people are removing sign face panels and HO/D lamps odd are they're private individuals doing that on their own. Or you have either rookie sign people getting persuaded to do the work.
A custom sign company with its own crane trucks, full time crews, etc. isn't just going to be waiting around on standby for storm duty. They're already going to have lots of install and service work to do that isn't storm related. They can't just drop all of that to run out and pull out someone's faces and lamps in advance of a storm.
Wind is another issue. You're not going to be sure a hurricane is going to hit your area until a couple days in advance. By that time you may already have squalls and other winds picking up. It isn't safe to have someone working in a crane basket 40 feet off the ground if the winds are blowing more than 20 or 30 miles per hour.
Also, what will the store operator protect in pulling out sign face panels and changeable letters? Honestly, it is really better to leave the face sections intact. It's a bad thing to have the insides of a sign cabinet blasted directly by rain, debris and other elements -especially if the sign is not built to NEC and UL Listing standards (which is kind of a common thing in the deep south). You also have to factor in the cost of the service call. Crane truck and service crew rentals aren't exactly cheap.
quote: William Hooper
Also, you're in Oklahoma & are likely more familiar with tornadoes, but hurricanes are different.
Growing up a military brat, I've lived in a number of hurricane prone areas. I've experienced typhoons in Japan, hurricanes in New Orleans, Northern Virginia and even, of all places, Yuma, AZ (freak storm in the mid 1970s that came up through the Baja Gulf).
But Lawton, OK has experienced its own ordeals with better than hurricane force winds for sustained periods of time. On May 22, 1996 a series of supercell thunderstorms over the Red River valley collasped after sunset and caused what is called a "heat burst." Our temperatures rose from the low 80s at around 9pm to over 100°F after midnight. We had category 2 hurricane force winds sustained for more than 4 hours. The heat burst caused lots of damage all over town. I didn't have power for 3 days. A great deal of signs were damaged, but we didn't lose any electronic message centers.
quote: William Hooper
You'll see that the most frequent city/county distribution includes less OK & TX, & more MS, AL, &^ other states. The Tornado Alley grouping of frequency attracts the eye, but spot occurrences of equal intensity fall more randomly outside.
Tornadoes can happen anywhere in the United States. But they are far more likely to occur in my region than any place else in the world. We don't get nearly as much rain and thunderstorms as the Gulf Coast, but the fewer thunderstorms here build with more ferocity and carry a higher likelyhood of developing rotation, wall clouds and tornadoes.
That top ten cities hit by F5 twisters can be a bit misleading. Our population is far more spread out here. And the prevailing majority of all tornadoes hit in rural areas. I'll just say the most powerful F5 tornadic storm in recorded history developed right over Lawton May 3, 1999....
...it happened right after I lit one of my farts with a match!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-04-2005 01:00 AM
quote: Bobby Henderson
I still find that hard to believe for a couple reasons.
AARRRGG! HELLO! HELLO! The battery in Bobby's 2-way must be dead; he can't hear me! I'M HERE, I BEEN HERE, I'm reporting, & I'm a-telling you, that's what they do! Don't live in doubt if you need confirmation; call up the folks at the Saenger or the State Palace in New Orleans & ask! This is not a setup, I didn't tell them to do it, it's what folks do! I don't know the folks at all those other businesses & churches that pull the panels out of their signs when the hurricane comes or who you'd have to talk to to get that information, but you can call those 2 theaters!
quote: Bobby Henderson
A custom sign company with its own crane trucks, full time crews, etc. isn't just going to be waiting around on standby for storm duty. They're already going to have lots of install and service work to do that isn't storm related. They can't just drop all of that to run out and pull out someone's faces and lamps in advance of a storm.
I'll take my turn to say I don't know about that. They easily could; most contractors when a hurricane is approaching STOP new installs & do storm readiness calls.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Wind is another issue. You're not going to be sure a hurricane is going to hit your area until a couple days in advance. By that time you may already have squalls and other winds picking up. It isn't safe to have someone working in a crane basket 40 feet off the ground if the winds are blowing more than 20 or 30 miles per hour.
ARRRGG! WHEN DO YOU THINK THE PLYWOOD GOES UP? That was why I brought up tornadoes! They are different from hurricanes! You have an opportunity to make storm preparations like pulling out the sign panels, putting up plywood, tightening antenna mounts up on the mast, taking down traffic lights, removing from the patio plants, cats & other objects which may become windborne missiles, etc. Tornadoes have almost zero advance warning, & you can't make preparations to minimize damage. Tornadoes have smaller areas which are affected, & for shorter duration.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Also, what will the store operator protect in pulling out sign face panels and changeable letters? Honestly, it is really better to leave the face sections intact. It's a bad thing to have the insides of a sign cabinet blasted directly by rain, debris and other elements -especially if the sign is not built to NEC and UL Listing standards (which is kind of a common thing in the deep south). You also have to factor in the cost of the service call. Crane truck and service crew rentals aren't exactly cheap.
It's easy to understand, lighter damage will wreck the face, so the preparation is made to not have the face wrecked if the damage is lighter!
quote: Bobby Henderson
hurricanes in New Orleans
The last hurricane to hit New Orleans was Betsy in 1965!
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