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Author Topic: Bad auditoriums? Michael Brown Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1522 From: Bradford, England Registered: May 2001 posted 03-12-2008 09:08 PM                     To start with a picture: This is the Birmingham Rep Theatre in England. Firstly this is cheating a little since this is a live theatre venue not a movie theatre but anyway. Now i'm not saying this is a bad auditorium and I will confess I have never actually been there, but something struck me looking at pictures of the auditorium. Look at how long the rows of seats are! Just checking the website the longest row is nearly 60 seats (all next to each other in one long line) Without being seperated by an aisle. I don't know what other peoples opinions are but to me it looks like it would be a nightmare if it was really busy, trying to squeeze past everyone to get to your seat. Imagine what it would be like if you were sitting in the middle of a row and you needed to leave the theatre part way through a show to go to the bathroom. You would imagine they would have either put a center aisle in there or even better used two aisles to break the rows into 3 sections.  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 03-13-2008 05:50 AM                     Michael, This is called "Continental Seating" and is the brainchild of the bean counters. If you look at how many more seats you have in front of the stage, and multiply that by the number of performances you have, the lost seats due to aisles make some very large $ losses. There are two auditoriums in our area that have this type of seating. Both are variants of the fire regulations requiring a maximum of 8 chairs to an exit-way. You are correct in that this plot makes everyone in the row stand up to let one in or out of their seat. KEN  |  IP: Logged Evans A Criswell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1579 From: Huntsville, AL, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-13-2008 10:50 AM                        Huntsville has had its share of bad auditoriums over the years. Back in the late 1970s after the twinning craze, one theatre had radial seating with a large single screen, and the seating was not changed after a wall was built up the center of the auditorium to split it. It closed in 1983. Another was originally a twin (Trans-Lux Twin, 1970) and one of the auditoriums was cut in two making at least one auditorium extremely narrow (I'm thinking 14 to 16 feet?). I saw Toys (Robin Williams) in that auditorium February 12, 1993, two weeks before the place closed. Another set of auditoriums were designed badly in the beginning. Cobb opened an 8-plex in an old A&P grocery store in 1982 and at least 7 of the auditoriums had center aisles and the seating sloped down and then back up near the screen. Two auditoriums were L-shaped because of the way the projection booth was built into the place. 7 of the screens were 20x10 with no movable curtains. No movies could be shown without image loss. The place closed in May 2000. Regal has two multiplexes that were converted from standard seating to stadium, with stadium in the rear, with some standard in the front. My main beef is that the distance I'd like to sit from the screen is the dead space between the two sections. The front parts are too close and too low, while the stadium part seems too far back. The large aduitoriums in these places are the same way, but the wider screens make the stadium part the right distance from the screen. Regal upgraded all of the small auditoriums to have adjustable top/bottom masking in 2003. Before then, two-thirds of the screens were 1.85-only, with scope chopped. Carmike Century Cinema 8 in Decatur has 4 old 1982-era Fairlane/Litchfield auditoriums with insufficent slope so that heads are often in the view of the screen. An extra inch or two of rise between rows would have made a lot of difference. The Rainbow Cinema 8 in Gadsden (now demolished) had 4 auditoriums of that same style.  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 03-13-2008 05:03 PM                     Mann Theatres out of California severely split up numerous National General Theatre locations, including the Fox Twin in Lubbock (in 1974, The Fox Four.) I never liked that remodel, but it seemed to be a wise business decision as that theatre did well into the late 80s. Monte has lovingly refered to these remodels as "Plywood Palaces". Spacious auditoriums converted to shotgun houses with center aisles and common width screens. Ballentyne Pro 35's added to the booth line-up (with Orcon pedistal lamphouses with 1000 watt bulbs replacing the carbon arc's on the Simplex 35s and Norelco DP75s. Magazines removed from the latter 2 to accomidate 6000ft reels. Xetron Mini- automation for these as well.(Ballentyne already having automation for their projectors.) It was possible to see the lay-out of the original theatres on the floor where the scars of the previous seat placements were in the concrete floors and the fact the seat pans still had numbers on them from the 70mm houses' set up to run Reserved seating Road Shows. The UA theatre I worked at in the mall added 2 auditoriums in 1978 after Star Wars showed them they needed more seats than the existing Jerry Lewis Mini-Cinema had allowed. These were long throw low ceiling jobs which had a short divider wall in the back of the auditoriums which needed to be lit somehow as customers kept walking into them in the dark. If the apertures were not filed correctly, the flat picture could easily hit the top of the ceiling in the middle of the large auditorium. (The ceiling ran at this level for almost half the length of the auditorium, then rose another 3 feet on toward the screen.) The ceiling tile was the same color as what we had in the lobby, off-white. This would do for the company until UA sold it in 1992. The screens were all common-height, and Cinemark installed side masking for the newer ones. It closed in 1994 when the lease ran out. Oh - the restrooms in the Ua had a notorious flaw - one could stand at one of the urinals and, if someone opened the restroom door, look right out into the lobby.  |  IP: Logged Christopher Crouch Expert Film Handler Posts: 128 From: Holywood, ca, usa Registered: May 2006 posted 03-15-2008 04:10 AM                  quote: James Westbrook Mann Theatres out of California severely split up numerous National General Theatre locations They did a horrific hack job on National General's Cinemaland, in Anaheim, CA.; dividing a large single screen in to a three plex. Two auditoriums were achieved through a somewhat traditional split, but the third was carved out horizontally, in what had been the front of the original auditorium.  |  IP: Logged Brian Guckian Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 594 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Apr 2003 posted 03-15-2008 07:36 AM                     One of the most common problems in cinemas here is the failure to curve or bank the seating rows so that all patrons have a comfortable view of the screen. Stadium seating may have "solved" sightline issues, but at the expense of accessibility for people with disabilities, and with implications for acoustics and the general design experience. I think the traditional raked design - when done right - remains superior. It employed a parabolic seating rake to ensure constant screen visibility aided by correctly-staggered seating layout. The room shape ends up far better acoustically as well, and is more pleasant to sit in as opposed to cavernous, box-shaped stadium-style auditoria. Indeed, study the world's most prestigious cinema theatres and you'll find they all follow these sound, well-established design principles. When you think about it, Cinema is over 100 years old and there's simply no excuse any more in the 21st century for lousy theatre design. What about some form of regulation? There are general building regulations found in countries the world over. What about a system of cinema design regulation endorsed by the studios and film distributors, so that those who fail to meet minimum acceptable standards don't get the product (whether film or digital)? Happens in other industries.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-15-2008 01:40 PM                        Mike, that Continental Seating design is not as bad as you might think. When it is implimented correctly as in an auditorium which is on the campus of St. Mary's College across the road from Notre Dame, they have this seating arrangement (only side isles, nothing down the middle) and it works quite well. The idea is that the rows are far enough apart so that patrons can remain seated while others can pass freely in front of them with out the seated patrons needing to move at all. Think of it as almost an "isle" between each row. That's the way it's supposed to be, in theory. Of course, the minute the bean counters get in the act, you can be sure they will want to cut back on the space between rows to get more rows in. Looking at the picture, it's hard to tell how much free space there is between the rows -- it doesn't look like much. If they eliminate the needed free spacing between rows, then, yes indeed, you have a congestion nightmare. BTW, in the St. Mary's auditorium, there is another unique feature -- there are a kind of "wings" every four or five rows leading to the exits. These allow people exiting the rows to be hidden behind the wings so that their movement in and out of the rows is not seen by but a few people in the rows adjacent to them. It eliminates a lot of distracting movement. They also have what I have never seen before -- surround speakers that are built into the designs on the side walls. You don't see the speakers at all; the sound just come out of the walls! I thought this was a great idea. After all, why have hardware hanging off the walls when you could just as easily build them into the fascade? I think the reason it has become a tradition and part of the culture of cinemas is because when CinemaScope was introduced with a surround track, it was retrofitted into existing theatres and the easiest thing to do was just to hang the speakers around the room. To continue to do it that way today when there are so many more aesthetic ways of camouflaging the speakers is just architecturally unimaginative, IMHO.  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 03-15-2008 04:25 PM                     Frank, You have overlooked the most obvious reason for hanging the surrounds outside the structure. "What you see is what you hear!" That old maxim is plainly in effect when you have complaints that the surrounds aren't working when they can see the speakers but expect sound to be pouring from them continuously. What would they do if your theatre had no surrounds in sight? When installing electronic organs behind old pipe facades, the listener always thought that he was hearing pipes. This is because we have a seeing is believing culture. KEN  |  IP: Logged Ray Faultless Film Handler Posts: 96 From: Amington, Tamworth, England Registered: Jun 2001 posted 03-15-2008 04:56 PM                     Mike, I have seen two shows at the Rep in Birmingham. From about half way up, lots of people fall or hold on to people already seated because they over compensate their balance they fear falling forward. It is a strange feeling getting to your seat and really is much to steep.  |  IP: Logged Michael Brown Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1522 From: Bradford, England Registered: May 2001 posted 03-15-2008 05:06 PM                     Evans Wrote: quote: Evans A Criswell ...with stadium in the rear, with some standard in the front. My main beef is that the distance I'd like to sit from the screen is the dead space between the two sections. The front parts are too close and too low, while the stadium part seems too far back. That's the problem I've had with the Odeon Trafford Center (here in England). At the site I work at (for example) we have about 4 rows in the front section. Which I think IS about right. If I'm watching a film at work I'll still in the second or third row of the stadium section and I'm high up but not to far from the screen. Were-as on my last visit to The Trafford Center - the auditorium had about 15 rows in the front section. So sitting even towards the front of the stadium section put me too far away from the screen. I ended up sitting to the rear of the front section. I was close to the screen but was having to crain my neck and look up.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-15-2008 05:48 PM                        quote: Frank Angel The idea is that the rows are far enough apart so that patrons can remain seated while others can pass freely in front of them with out the seated patrons needing to move at all. Think of it as almost an "isle" between each row. That's what we have here. When my theatre was built it had the traditional 3-section seating with two 3-foot aisles, and 425 seats. The rows were spaced from 48" at the top to 36"(!) at the bottom. Now, we have a continental arrangement, two 5-foot aisles and 160 seats, with 54" row spacing and all rows slightly curved so every seat faces toward the screen. It's easy to walk thru an aisle, the people need only pull in their feet. We did it mostly for sound considerations, since in the old design there were seats right next to the walls.  |  IP: Logged Jeremy Jorgenson Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1002 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: Feb 2005 posted 03-18-2008 07:07 PM                        When I was in Dublin, Ireland last month, I watched a movie at the Savoy - aud #4. The screen and seats were askance from one another which wasn't very pleasant.  |  IP: Logged Brian Guckian Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 594 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Apr 2003 posted 03-20-2008 06:30 PM                     Yes, that is a former single screen split during the 1970s, so like many of its kind the smaller screens have offset projectors, etc. BTW the No. 1 auditorium there remains Ireland's "premier hall" with classic gentle seating rake, excellent sightlines, huge curved screen, great sound, and so on. Always used for Premieres.  |  IP: Logged

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