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Topic: Credit requirements for booking prints (and photos of film equipment being junked)

Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 08-20-2011 06:28 PM

quote: Paul Looker
Does anyone have a rough idea of the lowest end price for converting a screen these days? We are small. 2k projectors would do the trick for us.

You'll have to provide more info about the existing setup for anyone to give you an estimate. Things like screen sizes/throws, existing sound equipment, etc will help.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 08-20-2011 06:38 PM

quote: Monte L Fullmer
With the right dealer and bargains, roughly $55K plus for a 2K, 2D unit...along with revisions needed in the booth for the conversions.

Monte, we have NO IDEA what his situation is like. How big is his screen? What is the throw? What kind of sound processor does he have currently?

Without knowing things like that, you are only potentially setting him up with bad info.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 08-20-2011 06:42 PM

Okey, please retract my statement then on what I said. We go by on what this buildings contain before one can safely say a rough price then ... (sorry on that...)

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-20-2011 07:23 PM

The economic downturn Justin mentions above seem to be a very real possibility.

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Aaron Mehocic
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 804
From: New Castle, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-20-2011 07:35 PM

quote: Paul Looker
It's not so much that she can't afford it as it is she never wanted this place to begin with and therefore never bothered to even consider any kind of upgrades to anything.

After reading that I say "HELL NO" to getting involved. Even in Pittsburgh, which seems to be weathering the recession better than other markets of similar size, I still think its a bad idea.

Justin:
I agree with all your points, but I still think the studios are going to have to keep film in the mix beyond 2012. The rural marketplace is too substantial of a hit to take - especially in the Midwest/Rustbelt. If the independent owners fall by the wayside as you are guessing then people may have to travel over 50 miles just to see a movie. Those kind of distances are unheard of here in the east.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 08-20-2011 07:42 PM

..and this weekend's releases didn't help any ...

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 08-20-2011 09:25 PM

It's called denial.

Everyone seems to keep forgetting amidst their passion for film that the studios want day-and-date for PPV. They don't care about the small guys! "Acceptable losses."

Just sayin'

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 08-20-2011 10:07 PM

quote: Aaron Mehocic
If the independent owners fall by the wayside as you are guessing then people may have to travel over 50 miles just to see a movie. Those kind of distances are unheard of here in the east.

I know that I've sometimes overused this phrase, but everything you've written in the above is an absolute non sequitur. The distributors make decisions based on lots of things other than what distances are heard/unheard of in the east or midwest. They may factor it in a little bit (just to make it seem like they give a shit) but in the end the rest of their "equation" is much more important to them.

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Mike Frese
Master Film Handler

Posts: 465
From: Holts Summit, MO
Registered: Jun 2007

posted 08-20-2011 11:06 PM

As I have said before ignore the % of screens that have been converted. INSTEAD.......look at what % of gross for an average movie is from digital locations. That number right now is north of 70% and will be at 90% next year.

EVERY significant chain of theaters (and I am really going pretty liberal on "significant") has already announced plans to go digital withing the year. Name for me one 5 location or more chain that has not????

The studios do not make much money on the bottom 10% of theaters. I am surprised sometimes how wide they do go.

Paul, you need to take a deep breath and step back for a few weeks. Read every post on this forum and on the other forum dealing with big screen business. I agree 100% with Brad. You are making a big mistake if you have not factored in digital and how to pay for it within 2 years.

The fact that you act surprised to hear Brad say that shows me you are not informed enough at this point.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-20-2011 11:33 PM

I maintain that stating what the studios will or will not do in 2013 (and beyond) is, at best speculation. NONE of them have put it in WRITING what they will do. It is obvious what they would LIKE to do. It also seems that the industry will be about 60% converted by the time the current VPF programs run out (for getting started). I don't know if Christie's deal, which does not include all of the studios...just the majors (at this point)...also has an October 2012 drop-dead date.

40% of a market is 40%...though, as some have pointed out, that 40% only represents 15-20% of the revenue.

The realities also are...that the amount of film needed to be made will be less than half of what it used to be...economies of scale will be reduced and thus make film a more expensive medium to deal with.

There are MANY factors in play here and the commercial/financial realities of the future will dictate how the future plays out. I think that anyone that they KNOW what is going to happen is taking their "beliefs" as "fact."

But for those of you that have not seen the mass disposal of film equipment...here ya go.

(finally platters being treated with the "respect" they deserve!

Note, they don't even save the lenses or intermittents anymore. They are just left out in the rain until they are hauled away.

Take you pick...Christie, Simplex Century...all being literally JUNKED.

This represents about 1-months worth of systems to be disposed (ALL of the pictures above) and it only represents ONE theatre chain's worth of throw aways. That is what the value of this stuff is becoming to some. It may be hard for those that have dreamed or at least desired to have that ISCO or Schneider lens or perhaps to replace their tired projector with something more reliable...but none the less, it is being thrown away as garbage with ZERO value anymore.

So there is REASON why some are proclaiming film is dead or is dying quickly. If you've been around the conversion at all, you have seen this, even if it is on a small scale.

Many booths still have their film equipment even after the digital conversion...do you want say some Kinoton PK60Ds? Or platters that have not been thrown in the dumpster?

Here ya go...make an offer. Brad is sitting on some too (with modern Christie consoles).

But who is going to invest in their film projection by making it better with film's future so uncertain?

It may be sad but it is reality.

I'm fortunate in that I get to work around venues that will likely be running film indefinitely (places like the AFI, National Archives, Library of Congress...etc) but for most of America, film seems like it is going to be shrinking into a niche. Mind you, I hope it does stick around...I like the medium. I also don't think exhibitors can really afford digital...if they could, they would not need the VPF deals...and few have had to feel the pain of repairing one of their digital projectors when a part that cost upwards of $20K fails. The machines are mostly reliable...but like all man-made things, they do fail and they will not always be under warranty. I do think that exhibition is jumping into a swimming pool without checking the depth, water quantity or even sides to ensure they can get out or keep themselves afloat.

-Steve

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 08-20-2011 11:41 PM

Steve, you accidentally left out the word "Strong" in your platter caption. [Razz]

The risk is just too great for Paul to take over that building without digital. Even if film made it until 2014, anyone still running film will be doomed, and I'm telling everyone, film WON'T last that long.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-20-2011 11:47 PM

There are plenty of Christie platters in that trailer too! Eff em all.

I'm not as pessimistic about film's survival. It will all be about the numbers, in my opinion.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-20-2011 11:51 PM

I wonder when the market for used digital equipment will start to emerge? That'll probably be the best deal for a lot of small venues.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 08-20-2011 11:55 PM

..all heading to the shredder and made into FORDS, or frying pans after all of the metal is sorted out..

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 08-20-2011 11:58 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
I'm not as pessimistic about film's survival. It will all be about the numbers, in my opinion.

quote: Mike Frese
As I have said before ignore the % of screens that have been converted. INSTEAD.......look at what % of gross for an average movie is from digital locations. That number right now is north of 70% and will be at 90% next year.

Yup Steve, you are absolutely right, and what Mike wrote is the reality. The studios care about the MONEY numbers.

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