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Author Topic: A return of 35mm installs for Nolan's next project "Interstellar" ? Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-09-2013 09:35 PM                     Steve, I think we are in basic agreement. (Is that really so awful?) The two quotes I presented from your post are major aspects of my opinion on the subject. I've never argued against what film is technically capable of. Instead, I have always framed my opinion in terms of what's actually going on, as well as what is likely/unlikely.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-09-2013 10:05 PM                     I do think you seem to see film for all of its flaws and digital for all of its strengths. I see them both for both their strengths and weaknesses.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-09-2013 10:18 PM                     I'm just a realist. Film is going/gone and it doesn't matter whether Nolan, Anderson or you or I or anybody else values its strengths. Sure! I appreciate film's strengths, but defending film as the major mode of presentation is a waste of time. Ultimately, the industry will have its way. I don't live in a hypothetical world. I live in the real world. The world where film was routinely showing major signs of wear (i.e. trashed) before the first screening on opening day.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 09-10-2013 01:19 PM                        Manny; as bad as it seems, in a (short) period of time, there will be no one currently employeed by "local" cinemas who will even be able to thread. Image the conversation: "What IS that thing?" "I don't know." "Someone said it had something to do with FILM!!!!!" "You mean like back in the OLD days??" Conversation held in 2015. Louis  |  IP: Logged Edward Havens Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 614 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2008 posted 09-10-2013 01:26 PM                     Except for, you know, the tens of thousands of union projectionists, non-union projectionists, general managers, lead managers, assistant managers, supervisors and floor staff who were taught to thread 35mm projectors over the past fifty years who are still alive. Edward  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-11-2013 06:34 AM                     Manny, you are a realest in you own mind. I don't think anyone thinks film is making a come back any more than vinyl records are. Yes, people will show an up-tick in LP sales but as a percentage of the market...statistically insignificant. Even I noted that anyone that thinks that there would be a film only release is of Nolan's or any other movie an idiot. But your comments go further than that. You hold up film's worst and kick it down on that. I continually see GOOD film presentations out here in the real world too. Are these in typical mall cinemas? No. They are, thankfully, digital now. You harp on what film is not strong on but never seem to notice where digital isn't so good. (Recently saw a picket fence go all Morie on screen...never saw that with film). Another thing that is, progressively, ticking me off with Digital is the DCPs of "rep" titles getting such pathetic treatment...they are little more than BluRays or DVDs and are being passed off as good enough. Christ 70mm titles are getting this sort of crap. One of my fears is that someday, not to distant...this stuff will be considered what 70mm used to look like. And it REALLY doesn't...it is just plain embarrassing. Being able to see rep titles on film and then looking at their DCP counterparts there really isn't a close contest...the film prints are winning at the AFI/Silver...I'd think that you'd see the same thing a IU...if not...is it the prints you are getting or is it your "real world" perception?  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-11-2013 10:14 AM                     "Digital" is not immune to bad standards of practice. I see it all the time in the graphics industry -even from big ad agencies that, one would think, would have staffers who were fully competent to be doing their jobs. I see people goofing up all kinds of digital assets and layouts in ways that would not have been possible with old school analog methods. So many people are disillusioned with the state of the graphics industry that a trend is growing in regards to using "traditional" analog methods for creating artwork. People who actually have the talent and skills to paint, draw or do any other creative work that involves using one's hands can explore that route. Anyone who thinks digital-based tools will eliminate bad standards of practice in the broadcast, video or movie industries isn't being realistic. The one common element that makes film or "digital" bad is people who use the tools or give orders on how those tools are to be used. A fallible person, prone to taking short cuts, doing things cheap/easy, or simply not really knowing what the hell he is doing can take the greatest digital cinema camera ever made and shoot shitty looking video with it. That person can certainly goof up things in post production too. An executive can deliver stupid orders, "I want all that grain & noise scrubbed out of there, even if it makes the actors' faces look like rubber!" quote: Manny Knowles I'm just a realist. Film is going/gone and it doesn't matter whether Nolan, Anderson or you or I or anybody else values its strengths. I'm not concerned at all about film projection disappearing from the average multiplex theater, but it is unfortunate that so many of these theaters are stuck with the 2K standard, which is just about the same as HDTV resolution. Couple that with the questionable practices going into how some DCPs are being encoded and I'm left thinking I won't miss a thing in terms of image quality by merely waiting a short time to rent the Blu-ray. And that's if I even want to watch the movie in question at all. I am concerned about the film medium disappearing entirely from the movie industry. Even though it is rapidly disappearing from the exhibition side, film still has a valid role to play in movie production, restoration and archival. Movies look still look better when they are shot on film. If companies who manufacture film go completely out of business studios will have one less safety net for backing up their assets. Major studio releases, even ones produced on video, are archived on 35mm prints as well as digital media. The life span of digital media isn't exactly great. Anyone who has used a computer long enough will have endured hard drive failures, corrupted optical discs and unique storage formats that go obsolete after only a few years. quote: Edward Havens Except for, you know, the tens of thousands of union projectionists, non-union projectionists, general managers, lead managers, assistant managers, supervisors and floor staff who were taught to thread 35mm projectors over the past fifty years who are still alive. Not to disrespect anyone's film threading skills (or skillz, mad skills, etc.) doesn't a projection kind of need to be doing that sort of thing on a regular basis to keep from getting a little "rusty?" If a theater running some special film-based engagement brings in a veteran projectionist who threaded film for many years, but hadn't touched the stuff in years either, isn't there still some risk of trashing a print. Running a projector isn't as complicated as rocket science, but it isn't as simple as riding a bicycle either.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 09-11-2013 10:30 AM                     Film will always have a place in art houses and museums for classics. The trouble is that so many are pushing for digital everything, the current print inventory could be wiped out. I think it's vital to still preserve old movies on film for exhibition for the sake of the art form. It would pain me to know I could never see a film print of Casablanca or Citizen Kane again, or that my children would never be able to see it. To me, that'd be like saying that one could only ever see a high resolution digital image of the Mona Lisa only and not the original. Going forward, digital has potential and some great strengths, but let us not dismiss film just because some terrible handlers have spoiled many a screening. If a movie was shot on film, edited on film, and mastered on film, I sure as hell would much rather see it on film. I'm hoping there are plenty of folks working at the big film archives that believe this too. AJG  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-11-2013 10:41 AM                        What competent operator is going to go back to a theatre that told him a year ago that his skills were useless? From what I have seen, the people who really know film are generally either working at places that need someone with that knowledge (art houses, etc.) or have moved on to other things. They are not working at AMC, Regal, Showcase, and the like.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-11-2013 07:40 PM                     With multiplexes out of the equation, we may indeed find a higher proportion of "film done right" at the art houses and such. That wouldn't surprise me. Regarding the prints I've gotten over the years (not just here) -- I've gotten some great ones, and I've gotten some not-so-great ones. I dunno. Maybe the AFI/Silver gets preferential treatment. Maybe they're lucky. Or maybe it's possible to buff a turd. Lord knows I have tried.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-11-2013 10:31 PM                     The AFI/Silver is an EXTREMELY RARE EXCEPTION to the rule, and really shouldn't be a part of discussions like this because it is so far from the norm, it just doesn't validate any argument referencing it. Sorry Steve, but its true.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-12-2013 10:19 AM                     If the AFI/Silver can get good prints, it shows that the industry can make them...it isn't intrinsic to film to have bad prints...there are just bad practices. The more I see DCPs (even modern releases) the more I see its flaws too...the "smear" as the camera pans.  |  IP: Logged Martin McCaffery Film God Posts: 2481 From: Montgomery, AL Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-12-2013 12:00 PM                        The AFI/Silver is an exception and they do get preferential treatment. Yes, the industry can make the prints, but the next question is "Will they make the prints available?" The answer for many films is No.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-12-2013 12:14 PM                     The smear effect in camera movement I see with movies these days has to do with movies shot using video cameras. The problem is far more obvious in low light settings and/or settings where the lighting is dramatically dark and light. An example of what I mean is all those night shoots where they park a Musco truck with a stadium light on it down the street to mimic a street light or the moon or whatever in the background. They use a couple other key lights. Basically you end up with many objects in the frame are partially lit with bright light (often around the edges) but with much of the composition still looking pretty dark. That sort of thing can look great when shot on film. It often looks like shit when shot using video cameras -especially if the camera is moving at all. Then that smeary looking crap comes into play or, at best, the movement merely takes on that "motion-flow" effect built into most HDTV sets. The video-DNA of the camera process becomes painfully obvious if it wasn't already. BTW, I've seen this problem on 35mm film prints made from video originated movies. I don't think the issue has nearly as much to do with the projection format as it does the origination format.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-12-2013 09:40 PM                     You guys are acting like film never had strobing issues on lateral camera movements.  |  IP: Logged

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