Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Selling your parking lot to your city to finance digital

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Operations » Ground Level » Selling your parking lot to your city to finance digital (Page 3)

This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4

Author

Topic: Selling your parking lot to your city to finance digital

Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 05-03-2014 03:09 PM

quote:
Great first post in the thread Marcel [thumbsup] I would say you are the one who is trolling.

Getting one someones nerve with arguments without any substance is one of your specialties.

Repeatedly calling for an almost 100 year old theater, you know absolutely nothing about, to get bulldozed because they cannot currently afford the conversion to digital. Questioning other people's business you know nothing about... If you're not a troll, then you're just a genuine asshole.

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
There sure is no value in selling a $90k asset to fund a digital conversion for a theatre that more likely cannot pay for this conversion with its current ticket sales and attendance. Eventually, some theatres just need to close.

You know what? You're just guessing... We don't know if the business is viable with current attendance levels. And why is it stupid to pay for an investment by selling off stuff that you don't need otherwise? Even big businesses often sell parts of their business or other assets to buy into new opportunities...

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
I find it very hard to believe that a small town theatre that needs a $90k upgrade is viable on a single screen.

Newsflash! It's actually a twin in it's current configuration, so the upgrade probably covers both screens...

| IP: Logged

Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 05-03-2014 03:15 PM

quote: Marcel Birgelen
And why is it stupid to pay for an investment by selling off stuff that you don't need otherwise?

Its a bad idea because the parking lot (assuming it is owned) is likely worth more than the business (movie theatre). If viable, this theatre should have appropriate levels of revenue and thus profit to be able to pay (finance or lease) for the digital equipment required for the upgrade. Selling off a $90k asset is probably the worst possible thing the owner could do.

It is as simple as that.

| IP: Logged

Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-03-2014 03:35 PM

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
If viable, this theatre should have appropriate levels of revenue and thus profit to be able to pay (finance or lease) for the digital equipment required for the upgrade.

So then you've seen the financial records of this particular theater? You must have, because nowhere in the article does it say they can't afford to convert without selling the parking lot. Don't be so judgmental without knowing all the facts.

I finally had a chance to Google the pictures of the building -- it's a nice looking place. Maybe the owner is up in years and doesn't want to get into debt right now.

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
Calm down

I am calm. You're the one who can never admit when he's wrong.

| IP: Logged

Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 05-03-2014 05:23 PM

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
Its a bad idea because the parking lot (assuming it is owned) is likely worth more than the business (movie theatre).

Since you want him/her to bulldoze the building, I assume you assume he/she owns the building. So, according to you, that building isn't worth at least $90K? Including the current movie theater business?!

And after bulldozing this building, the value of the property also magically increases?

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
If viable, this theatre should have appropriate levels of revenue and thus profit to be able to pay (finance or lease) for the digital equipment required for the upgrade.

And even if it currently isn't turning in sufficient profits, who are you to judge his/her plans to sell one of his/her assets to turn his/her theater around?

Business according to the Laws of Terry would look something like this:

Hey, this joint hasn't seen any profits the last few months! Bring in the dynamite and blow this place up! It will be worth more in little pieces!

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
Selling off a $90k asset is probably the worst possible thing the owner could do.

If I could choose between selling an asset that I don't really need or paying back some sleazy bank or lease corporation the next few years to finance an important investment for my business, I would choose the former any given day...

And I seem to remember that quite a lot of businesses are actually based on buying and selling assets...

| IP: Logged

Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

posted 05-03-2014 05:42 PM

"Bulldozing the building" also isn't free. Labour, equipment and disposal costs add up fast when doing any demolition. Taxpayers here recently paid $164,200 to demolish an old skating rink. Now it's a vacant lot.

| IP: Logged

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 05-03-2014 10:12 PM

Hence all the Gold Rush ghost towns dotted along the central belt of California and Oregon: when the industry that sustained their existence (gold mining) petered out, demolishing the buildings and returning the land to its natural state cost money that the last remaining inhabitants didn't have. So they just walked away, leaving these little towns behind them.

| IP: Logged

Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 05-04-2014 11:54 AM

quote: Marcel Birgelen
If I could choose between selling an asset that I don't really need or paying back some sleazy bank or lease corporation the next few years to finance an important investment for my business, I would choose the former any given day...

You have some poor thinking Marcel. My hunch is that you are somewhere in your young 20s with very little life experience.

Selling the $91k asset is one of the dumbest things this owner could do. This business should be able to generate enough revenue to finance the upgrade, if it can't then the the owner should close the doors. Sometimes you have to know when to pull the plug.

| IP: Logged

Buck Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 894
From: St. Joseph MO, USA
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 05-04-2014 01:00 PM

I'd say whatever the theater can do to stay open would be better for the community. Maybe they could buy it back someday.

As has been said, If you can make the conversion without a giant loan, it's certainly an avenue worth considering.

| IP: Logged

Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 05-04-2014 03:14 PM

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
You have some poor thinking Marcel. My hunch is that you are somewhere in your young 20s with very little life experience.

I'm not sure where you bought that hunch of yours, but if it's still under warranty, you really should have that fixed.

Heck, even if it's not covered anymore, let someone have a look at it. Your current hunch is a danger to society...

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
Selling the $91k asset is one of the dumbest things this owner could do.

I agree with your perfectly substantiated reasoning, you're obviously the business consultant overlord! The best thing he/she can do is: Screw those unused assets, close the doors and bulldoze the theater! Because you know, that would obviously benefit him, the community, etc.!

Or wait! Why not blow it up Vegas style? With grand fireworks and all? The neighbors surely wouldn't mind at all! And you could sell tons of tickets for the show!

| IP: Logged

Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-04-2014 04:27 PM

quote: Frank Cox
"Bulldozing the building" also isn't free.

Especially with old buildings. Last year we had our old boiler and ac scrapped for free, but it cost us $16,000 in asbestos abatement. And that was just for a small part of the building.

| IP: Logged

Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

posted 05-04-2014 05:38 PM

You got that right.

There is an old building downtown here that actually used to be a theatre way back when. You can still see a poster case on the front wall:

This building appears to be a true white elephant. The city has taken it for unpaid taxes a couple of times, and then sold it for a token amount to someone who figures he'll renovate it and make it into something. A year or two later, the current owner stops whatever renovations he's been doing and puts it up for sale. Some time after that the city seizes it for unpaid taxes and the cycle starts again. Right now it's at the "for sale sign" stage. I've watched this cycle repeat a few times over the past several years.

I'm not entirely sure of the specifics, but it appears that everyone who buys it eventually discovers that it will cost far more than it's worth to fix it up, and that tearing it down is almost impossible due to the location of those other buildings right up against it. The building is really quite big, and as far as I know the only way to safely demolish it would be to take it apart by hand, brick by brick; I hate to think what that might cost.

The lot that it sits on is probably worth something, but with that building on it I believe it currently has a negative value.

| IP: Logged

Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 05-04-2014 06:24 PM

@Frank, this location has some tenants living in it.

quote:
Rare opportunity, with endless options, to own a commercial building for the price of a house. Within the building there is a recently finished 4 bdrm apartment on the second floor with an equal size shop/garage below it. Currently rented for $1500 per month on a month to month lease. Tenants willing to stay. Total 12,000 sq ft plus a partial, solid concrete basement with high ceilings. Some of the electrical has already been upgraded and all plumbing is roughed in so the space could be finished by a handyman. There is already $3,000 in commercial drywall throughout the building ready for install. Great opportunity to live mortgage free and enjoy the tax breaks. Some of the upgrades include: new roof, h.e furnace, central air, water heater, added insulation etc. This property presents an opportunity to have enough rental (once finished) to sustain a comfortable living, however this is a commercial property so please keep in mind that your financial institution will likely require a 30% down payment. Serious inquiries only. Qualified buyers will be provided with further info on the building as well as photos.

web page

| IP: Logged

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 05-04-2014 11:06 PM

Giggle. Reminds me of a story I was told last week, about a guy whose business did reasonably well. Desiring a status symbol, he bought an 1890s mansion that is a famous local landmark at a price he thought was a steal. But within a few months he'd found out the hard way why: the place was costing him around $40k a month in property taxes and the maintenance required for a registered historic building alone. He tried to sell it for almost a year thereafter, without any buyers. Eventually he donated the property to an unsuspecting religious organization, and ended up making more from the tax write-off that donating the property to a 501(c) landed him than he'd originally paid for it.

| IP: Logged

Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 05-05-2014 07:26 AM

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
Selling the $91k asset is one of the dumbest things this owner could do. This business should be able to generate enough revenue to finance the upgrade, if it can't then the the owner should close the doors. Sometimes you have to know when to pull the plug.

I think one looming fear here is that even if he were able to save the revenue, is it a guarantee that he could save enough while still getting prints? Because, there's a not-insignificant chance that the owner stops making money simply due to non-availability of prints.

And as mentioned, he may have multiple lots and possibly selling off only one or have worked out a deal where he sells them the lot and after conversion, buys it back at a price not massively larger than what he's selling it for after saving the revenue they make then (which doesn't have as much immediacy in the transaction compared to converting to digital).

| IP: Logged

Chris Daigle
Film Handler

Posts: 24
From: Gardner, MA USA
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 05-05-2014 04:58 PM

I just happened to go onto the Temple Theater website and found out that the owner is selling all of the property including the theater itself. I'm sure that responsibility to convert to digital will be with anyone who may be interested in buying it. From the website:

"The historic Market Square property: including the Temple Theatre, the Temple building, Zippy’s seasonal restaurant and take out, and the large parking lot which overlooks the Meduxnekeag River is available for purchase.

The theatre was fully renovated in 2002 from the basement up. Concessions, restrooms, theatres, carpeting, lighting, walls, counters, projection equipment, etc. were all renovated or replaced. Most of the “front of the house”(public space) equipment and facilities is in “brand new” condition. New screens, seating, speakers, details, and some projection and sound equipment were installed to make the theatre going experience enjoyable and professional. Dolby sound was added in 2009.

The theatre building is the heart of downtown Houlton’s historic Market Square and with the parking lot has nearly 500 feet of frontage directly on the Square.

The Temple Theatre re-opened on November 1, 2002 to rave reviews and higher than expected attendance. The theatre has consistently exceeded projections and does well. As a two screen theatre we show the best of first run films. We can’t “open” them all but if it was big in the world it will be big in Houlton. There is room to add one more screen in our “backstage” area.

In 2003 we purchased the adjacent “Key Bank” parking lot. In 2004 we purchased the Masonic Temple building from our landlords; the Masonic Lodge. The building purchase includes the 2nd floor with over 6500 square feet of rental/lease office space including an owners/managers apartment. The 3rd floor of the Temple building is privately owned in condominium arrangement with the Masonic Temple Lodge Assoc. The purchases combined the parking lot, the building, and the theatre business into one large and significant property.

In 2008 we opened “Zippy’s” a casual outdoor dining and take out restaurant (see photos). Zippy's has added a great dimension to our property and Houlton.

In 2008 we sold the back portion of our property to Coastal Enterprises and they are building a beautiful 28 unit senior housing facility. (See photo)

The 2nd floor office space is now fully leased. There is also a new 7 room apartment occupied by our manager.

In 2008-09 we added 18” of insulation in our roof to conserve on heat, replaced one of our boilers with a brand new boiler and added new efficiency controls, added energy conservation applications throughout the building, and replaced the 3rd floor windows with new energy efficient windows.

The property extends to a point high above the Meduxnekeag River edge and has a commanding view of the river, the exciting new Houlton pedestrian bridge, the Riverfront Park, and River Walk project. There is great potential for further commercial or residential development on the property.

The building, leased office space, theatre, restaurant, and parking lot real estate is offered separately or in whole. The building, theatre, and apartment/office space is available separately. Entire property and businesses including Zippy's $349,000.00. Entire property not including Zippy's is $299,000.00. Buyers interested in purchasing the property fully leased: please ask to discuss lease terms.

Partial financing is available. Further reduction in price available if entire property is not purchased."

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.