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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Author
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Topic: Lion King 2019 - soft volume
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 07-23-2019 03:04 PM
quote: William Kucharski
Everything should be played at 7, period.
If I played our system at 7 we would definitely lose business. It would drive ME crazy.
And we are calibrated every time our tech visits, and we've been through three different techs over the last 25 years or so, and they all say we're calibrated properly, and it STILL sounds best somewhere between 4.5 and 5.0 in 90% of cases. If we run it at 7, explosions and such sound really impressive but the dialogue just sounds too loud for listening comfort.
I always have the same complaint at CinemaCon... where they probably play everything at 7, and without fail it sounds too loud to me. Of course, there, you're mostly watching trailers which are always too loud to start with.
For what it's worth, in 40 years in the business I have never had one complaint that our sound was too soft. I HAVE had the occasional "boy, that's loud!" comment. (They are usually smiling when they say it.)
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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-31-2019 12:17 PM
quote: Bobby Henderson
But most of the time the sound is turned way down.
Quite the opposite in the theaters I attend in NYC. It's almost always at ear-piercing levels. I really don't want to be yelled at when it's a quiet talking scene. And when there's an action scene, the volume is at rock concert levels and highly compressed, so there's little dynamic range. I've taken to bringing hearing protection with me like I do at music shows. I don't wear them throughout the entire film, but I'll put them in if it gets bad.
I think part of the problem is that theaters set the volume for when there's a full house, but when a screening isn't very crowded, like during weekdays during the day, there aren't enough bodies (and in the summer, not enough coats) to absorb all that sound.
I've heard some lousy sound, but I can't remember the last time I thought the level was too low.
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Harold Hallikainen
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 906
From: Denver, CO, USA
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted 07-31-2019 12:24 PM
"I think part of the problem is that theaters set the volume for when there's a full house, but when a screening isn't very crowded, like during weekdays during the day, there aren't enough bodies (and in the summer, not enough coats) to absorb all that sound."
But, we generally do B chain alignment including level set (screen speakers at 85 dB (C) with -20 dB FS pink noise and surrounds at 82 dB (C) with an empty house. As such, I'd expect the level with an audience to be too low due to absorbtion. Also, how does absorbtion of empty chairs compare with full chairs? We are generally relying on direct sound, so reflections are minimal to begin with.
Harold
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 09-02-2019 09:29 AM
I wonder how many hear know of the "Dolby Fader Characteristic." That is, the digital faders try to simulate a log-taper analog fader using a 2-slope method (Harold can chime in if the USL products it was associated with followed suit).
The hinge point is at "4.0". Below 4.0, the slope is MUCH steeper. From 0.0-4.0, you move from -90dB to -10dB (and 80dB change). From 4.0 to 7.0 you only move 10dB so doing some quick math, each 0.1 step is only .33 dB of difference (not much). Playing at 5.0 you are 5.67dB down. But the difference between 4.0 and 3.9 is much more drastic, that is a 2dB difference versus the mere .33dB difference between 4.0 and 4.1.
The point is that is bad to be hovering around the 4.0 point on a typical linear scale fader. Even on analog processors, the VCAs are not going to track very well down in that range from channel to channel.
For typical cinemas (not screening rooms or those prone to handle studio screenings), I'll target 82dBc for the main channels to build in a 3dB cushion (which is like lowering the fader to 6.1). This tends to keep the fader in the sweet spot of 5-7 for most of my customers.
I have also found that the better your speakers are, the better the acoustics of your room, the higher the volume can go without being offensive.
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Carsten Kurz
Film God
Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted 09-02-2019 05:52 PM
It's even more complicated than this. I always wondered why so many colleagues mention playing main features on their Dolby processors well below 5, and preshow below 4. While the typical setting on our (and other colleagues') Datasat AP20 is between 5.5 and 6.0.
Well, recently I compiled this table, and marked 'our' typical main feature level (5.5, Datasat AP20) with it's actual attentuation figure (-8dB) against the same value of other processors. And immediately it becomes clear. With the same calibration setting performed at 7.0, a Dolby processor at 4.5 will output roughly the same level as the AP20 at 5.5.
That image only shows the most interesting part, I have a full range Excel table if anyone is interested. Dolby here means CP650/750/850/950. The USL JSD80/JSD100 are somewhere between Datasat and Dolby, a bit closer to Datatsat. Which complies with a few other colleagues using JSD80/JSD100.
The USL JSD60 is somewhat special, as early firmware revisions apply the USL curve, while later ones (from 140723) emulate the Dolby curve. I think it would be good if all common processors used the same curve, as no one is playing at 7.0. I hope Dolby doesn't hold a patent on that curve ;-)
- Carsten
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