"I was looking around at old cartoons on the web and noticed an interesting fact. Quite a few of those old cartoons' copyright has expired."

Not sure how they did their research for that list of alleged "public domain", but Time-Warner (Turner) has been pretty rigorous in maintaining the copyrights on their entire film library (MGM and Warner Bros.), likewise, Disney. Universal and Paramount also know and protect the value of their collections. One group that is very involved in this area is the Association of Moving Image Archivists (AMIA).

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

I found these cartoons in 16mm (some public domain).
http://www.aarchive.co.uk/moviemem/16mm.html

Could 16mm be projected at a film theatre? Would patrons notice the difference?

cheers Peter

I have come across a lot of sites that talk about certain cartoons being in the public domain. This could be a cheap way to get some extra content for patrons (if you can get a print that is)

As noted in another posting, a good 16mm print can easily fill a 4 x 3 metre screen, and probably up to a 6 x 4.5 metre screen. It would be difficult to fill a really large screen with a 16mm print, as the lamp power required would be an issue with the smaller frame size.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Still. Those 'public domain' cartoons would be good for home showings. Thanks John for the wise advice.

I did some relief work at a cinema where the manager gave you an allocation of carbons for the day, I often wondered if there would be any deduction in wages for any broken or dropped carbons. The worst billing one week was a Woody Woodpecker cartoon on with Hitchcock’s “The Birds” (absolutely true). Most split weeks were late run Fox CinemaScope pictures, 4-track magnetic/optical prints, which could only be run at that cinema in mono optical with a much higher fader setting. The only time us Brits received copies on transit spools due to magnetic stock, but that was not to last for long. With the exception of 2 projector 3D prints that were always on 5,000’ reels.

Hope that gives you some idea Peter how things were in the old days, in the UK anyway. And on top of all that you got a stage show and an organ concert in a cine-variety theatre during the 1930/40s. Programmes would often run for 4 hours. Cine-variety was revived in 1952 at the old 3,000 seater Empire Theatre Leicester Square, in London’s West End. Advertised as ‘The Showplace Of The Nation’, with continuous shows daily from 10am. 3 Super Simplex projectors, RCA Perspecta optical stereo sound (1954). Stelmar spotlights. The last film was “Ben Hur” in Ultra Super Panavision 70mm - from a new projection box constructed in the middle of the stalls, Philips DP 70 projectors. 18 months later a new Empire was built within the shell and opened in 1962.

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A certain Toronto theatre manager of one of our (now closed) downtown major houses, in the 50's was quite a showman. He insisted on playing the theatre organ himself during intermissions, dressed in suitable attire, including a cape. Naturally, no one else was permitted to touch the organ as this was his pride and joy.

The organ rose from the stage on pneumatic control from the projection room, and the projectionist had to work at getting the stage-light levels just the right colour and level for each piece the manager played, or catch proper hell, later.

The story has it that, at the conclusion of one of his performances, having returned to his office to change to managerial attire, he was notified via intercom from the booth that the pneumatic controls to lower the organ were not working.

Quite the excitable chap, he was seen running down the aisle, cape still on, and in underwear, shouting,

"My organ won't go down, my organ won't go down!".

Carl Stalling and Milt Franklyn were given free reign to rework any and all Warner-controlled music, and they did, and Warner paid the royalties. A typical WB cartoon might have identifiable bits from 10-15 different songs, with the copyrights all owned by WB.

So the answer is that even if a particular cartoon itself has entered the public domain, there are still most likely underlying copyrights in the musical scores that require clearance, so for all practical purposes, the cartoon might as well still be under copyright.

If the cartoon was released prior to 1922 though, then it is unambiguously in the public domain.

It's specifically about the Vogue Theatre in Louisville, but reminiscences about any theatre would be welcome--as well as pictures if anyone has any taken from about 1945-1980 or so. I'm interviewing people in Louisville who went to the Vogue and it's amazing what they remember. On lady was sitting in the theatre on Dec. 7th, 1941 when they stopped the movie to ask all newsboys to report to their stations for immediate distribution of an "Extra"--something else that's gone the way of the double feature.

Wish list of things I'd like to see talked about (and feel free to contact me privately if you'd rather):

1. Changes in theatre furnishings and appointments (the Vogue used to have plain, white acoustic tile walls and neon surrounding the square screen--they renovated at some point with gold cloth over the tile)

2. Changes in concession food (one friend of mine from Kansas swears by a candy called "Cherry Mash.")

3. Changes in equipment (we know that the Vogue changed to wide-screen in November of 1953, but can't figure out if the Simplex X/L's were installed at the same time. What about changes from mono to stereo or optical to digital formats? Was there fanfare and promotion?)

4. Unusual experiences (see "Pearl Harbor" above; we know a woman who was at the theatre opening night, Dec. 22, 1939, and, by sheer coincidence since no one knew the theatre was closing until after the show, on closing night in 1998; I spoke with a gentleman this morning who said he sat in the same seat for almost 60 years--halfway down, aisle on the left)

5. Whatever you think I need to know to write a history of going to single-screen neighborhood theatres 1945-present. Personal experiences are good. Just to prime the pump, I will tell you that I'm the only employee besides the manager who never had sex somewhere in the theatre. Pardon the self-revelation if I have shared too much.

Dennis

The WB logos at the beginning & ends of Looney Tunes & Merrie Melodies are under copyright.

There used to be lots of cheap videocassettes of those WB cartoons which hadn't had their copyrights renewed. The beginning & end "Looney Tunes" & "Merrie Melodies" titles were chopped off. You don't see them much anymore, as they are bootlegs. I believe Warner Brothers started to pursue folks putting them out. Even though the cartoons were no longer under copyright, there were underlying copyrights on the music, which was mentioned here.

Copyright, trademark, and patent laws are some of the most inequitable and unfair laws in existence. The original intent has been distorted and warped to serve special interests with no thought to reasonableness or fair play. Often the true inventor of a device has to sell his rights to a major corporation just so he can get any income and not lose all profits from fighting legal challenges.

Here is another example of the patent unfairness of today's laws: If you donate blood, and a company uses that blood and extracts a particular factor, they can patent the factor as an "invention." You, as the donor, not only have no rights to the invention, but technically the company could then sue you for having the factor in your blood.

Now I feal very old.

I can remember my local Odeon showing two feature films. I think it was because the main film was so bad, (watched a lot of films when I was younger). They would put some turkey on before it so the main feture was not so bad.

Reverse psychology