Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Leonard Maltin... (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Leonard Maltin...
Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-09-2001 09:03 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In Toronto we had several plexs that were changeovers with one person operating it
When something is made easier it tends to lower the common denominator of the work ethic of operating it. That is true of any industry

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-09-2001 08:30 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe said: "They had these violent reel rewinders that had two speeds: ON and OFF."

You've hit the nail on the head. Poor technique/equipment when winding film is the most common source of cinch type scratches. Constant tension and slow acceleration are needed to wind a tight even roll without the film convolutions rubbing on each other, letting dirt particles cause cinches. Good idea to keep the film from touching dirty surfaces too.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-09-2001 08:46 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Ya forgot one super important thing about running changeovers, John. LEADER, LEADER LEADER! Never run any film reel to reel with the length of leader that the labs provide. The ends of the reel WILL get damaged. To protect them, additional head and tail really does need to be added and the "original lab leader" should in fact never be handled by human hands. The film should be threaded on the extra leader that was attached when the print arrives and then motored down to the start point. I recommend a minimum of 25 feet at the head and tail. Also, films running reel to reel should not be rewound by a hard ON/OFF type of rewind table. Also, rewinding by hand is a bad idea as well.


 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-09-2001 09:15 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe the SMPTE standard is 33 feet of raw stock on the head and tail as protection leader. Most labs put that on and the exchanges hack it off
Also most IMAX theatres still use reels (horitzontal but reels) and rewind at about 600 feet per min.
We run several thousand passes on each print with no chinch marking to speak of

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-09-2001 10:00 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
No, I know of no lab on regular release prints that has anywhere close to 33 feet of leader on their reels. Only on one of a kind reprints do I see that. Not mass printing jobs.

The IMAX reel units are still doing exactly what needs to be done, Gord. They start slow, speed up and slow down. They also have properly controlled backtension on the film. At least the model featured in the Omni Video Tour is that way.

 |  IP: Logged

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 07-10-2001 03:10 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Getting back to the focus issue, I used to find that one factor which made an enormous difference was whether the lamp stayed on between shows or not. In one place I worked there was no automation and so I tended to leave the lamp on if the gap between shows was less than 10 minutes. You didn't have to touch the focus knob after restarting, and the only thing that really affected it were changes between CTA and polyester stock.

If the lamp was off for any appreciable time, however, the picture would be significantly out after restarting. Adjusting the focus would make the situation worse, because as the projector got hotter the position of the lens would shift and throw the focus out again. I eventually got round this problem by always striking the lamp 10-15 minutes before showtime - quite often, no focus adjustment would be needed, even from the previous evening. But it was certainly my experience that the first few minutes of the show were the most problematic, and my judgement was not helped by the fact that there are a large number of short sections of different stocks going through during this time, so it's more difficult to get a reference point.

 |  IP: Logged

Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-10-2001 10:41 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cinch marks are one area where platters have *nearly* eliminated a problem. The large take-up reel on most projectors I've used is based on kiddie (to be kind) engineering quick fixes... Take a loose leather belt to power a pully at high speed, then add a small spring pressure slip clutch and attach it to an undersized spindle that drives a small core shipping reel that devolved from a bent pair of stamped metal disks to a T.E.S. reel. Damage from small reels is bad enough trying to actually <gasp> run a film off shipping reels, but the problem worsens with large reels.

I hate to say it, but 3-D was a major contributor to the problem. The idea of putting 6,000 feet of film on a single reel and trying to run with a longer set of reel arms and a slip clutch was outside of any reasonable engineering design, but projectionists got away with it, and found they had to do fewer changeovers. The rest is history.

There were attempts to increase the diameter of the reel, attempts at beefing up the spindle (which sometimes broke from the weight and mis-handling) with an adapter, and attempts to reduce the torque problems at startup with more expensive floating hub reels, but the bottom line was and is still the same. The discrepancy in diameters of film from start to finish is too great for a simple slip clutch to handle properly.

The huge hubs, dancer arms on platters, and feedback systems are such an improvement that, in my opinion, old style large (over two reel) take-up reel systems and crude rewind benches should be banned. Only cost keeps there from being an interactive tensioner on large take-up reels and a tensioner on benches.

Joe and John are correct that "on-off" rewind benches will create cinch marks, but the cinch problem would be greatly reduced if the loose wind of the take-up reels was corrected at the source.

Excuse the grumble, but I damaged too much film early in my career from big reels, dirt, slip clutches and rewind benches powered by washer motors. Having to deal with acetate and fox hole sprockets didn't help. On one set of projectors I couldn't get sufficient tension on a full reel unless the clutch was set tight enough to proud the perfs on the head of the winding film. This forced me into recognizing the problem and using single reels or only putting two reels on a big reel. I did eventually get better at hand cranking a film up to speed and matching the motor speed, but sometimes I could still feel the cinching as I started to rewind, especially on damaged film.

If I'd had more of a brain back then I would have increased the length of the head leader by a hundred feet or more to minimize the damage. But back then I was too trusting that people designing machinery knew what they were doing and there was little a projectionist could do to improve things.


 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.