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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Natural gas question - Knoxville teen burned (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Natural gas question - Knoxville teen burned
Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-03-2001 10:00 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gas will not heat a pan as hot or boil water as quickly as electric.
Gas stoves also add moisture to the air, which is good in dry climates, but not good in the subtropics.

Electric has its own set of problems. The line from my meter to the main panel is 4 ought aluminum. One day I noticed that the AC wasn't working properly and checked the breakers in the main panel and found some hot (temperature). I then began exploring the heat and found the top of the meter box hot as well. At that point, I called in an electrician friend, who opened things up. We found that the heat had melted the insulation on the mains and the wires were about 1/4" from being a direct short. Since this was before any circuit breaker, only a breaker at the transformer would have would have prevented sparking and an inevitable fire that couldn't safely be extinquished.

The electrician removed the meter and replaced the wires, using generous amounts of anti-oxidant, but I still check for the temperature of the entrance at least once a month. Actually, it is a good preventive measure to test sockets, switches, and breakers for excessive heat, especially in houses that might have some aluminum wire.



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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 08-04-2001 10:49 AM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All I can say about Aluminum wiring is: What were they thinking?

I went to a friends house awhile back.
While we were eating dinner, the lights flickered, went off, and popped back on.
I commented that the electric co. must be having trouble tonight, and my friend said that this was a normal thing, and that none of the neighbors had this problem. Then he said that this problem only affected certain parts of his house.
----------------
Now, before I continue, let me say this:
I am not a licensed electrician, but I DO know my way around electricity, and I know what is HOT and what is NOT in the breaker panel. Also, I never touch anything unless I have checked it with my volt-meter, which I happened to have in my truck.
----------------
If you are at all unsure about what you are doing, then DONT TAKE THE COVER OFF THE BREAKER PANEL! There is unfused voltage in there that WILL KILL!
----------------
I went to his CB panel that was installed when the house was built in the early 70's, opened the door and got a hot wire smell instantly. Several of the breakers were extremely warm to the touch.

After removing the cover, I found that many wire connections where they attach to the individual breakers were discolored and overheated or actually burned. These wires are aluminum, not copper. They actually expand and contract as they pass current, and they had losened the screw connections on the breakers. There was alot of resistance at these bad connections, and this was causing the problems.

We got a list of the ratings of all of the burned breakers and went to the parts center and bought 14 new breakers and made sure that they were compatible with aluminum wire. I also got a container of anti-oxidant (?) paste for the actual connections.

After turning off the main breakers,
I replaced the individual branch breakers, cut the burned wires back to expose bright clean ends, dipped the ends into the paste, and reconnected them to their respective screws.

Luckily, the original electrician had left several extra inches of wire inside the panel at each breaker.

After finishing up, I checked all the other connections on the branch lines.

I snugged up every wire connection with my screw driver just a bit.

After making sure that all the new breakers were in the off position, I turned on the main, and one-at-a-time, turned on each new breaker. Everything worked.

We put all the covers back in place, and congratulated ourselves on a job well done, and turned on the TV. My friend instantly noticed that there was no interference in his TV image.
I told him that something in the panel had probably been sparking just enough to affect his TV image. This scared him.

I think he was in for some real problems, or a fire, in the panel if we had not done what we did.

A few days later, he had a licensed electrician come up and check everything, including the work I did.
There were several other problems, like bad dryer outlet connections, and a burned range plug, but the wiring I repaired passed with flying colors.

He has been given a price to have the entire house rewired. I think he will do it when he gets some extra money.

The hot wires scared him pretty badly. He's already had one house fire...in the kitchen... and wants no other.

I went to his home last night. The whole house was lit up. The first thing we did was go feel around the breakers in the panel. Not one was noticibly warm to the touch.

I'm going to get a new kitchen/laundry room floor as trade for the work I did on his house. He is great at this. I just have to pay for materials.

I am sure that situations like this are the reason that AL wire is not used in home wiring anymore.

PS: My house is all copper wiring.

Sorry to veer off-topic so badly, but I had to reply.

Each energy source can hurt you if it is not properly installed/maintained.

And now, any further comments on what I said? One thing: Please dont come down on me for working on his wiring. I DO know what I am doing. If I had any doubt, I wouldn't have done anything at all.

Bruce


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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-04-2001 12:42 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great example and points, Bruce. I can't see why anyone would come after you for working on his wiring, especially if he had it checked by a licensed electrician afterwards. The license is only important to insure code compliance and limit any personal liability you might have had.

In addition to the problems of interference and hot spots, bad connections increase the electric bill. All of that heat is money wasted.


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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 08-04-2001 03:33 PM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Jerry.

Not to toot my own horn, I rewired my entire house in 1986-87, and ran an underground feed line out to my garage so that I could work on 220v items like air conditioners.

When the inspectors came after I finished, they could find no problems with my work other than:

2 splices in the breaker box. I have since run new wire for this problem.

No ground-fault for the outlets near the sinks. This was fixed before they came back to recheck things.

One thing they questioned was my use of 12ga wire all over the house for branch circuits even though 14ga wire was correct, and the breakers were rated 15 amps.
A friend's mother-in-law set her home on fire after a major argument one night. It was a huge ranch style house with elecric heat throughout. When they were tearing it down, we removed many 30-50' lengths of 12ga "romex" style cable. We saved everything. Anything in the basement was unharmed. This saved me a fortune in wiring costs.

I got my inspection certificate. I've never even tripped a breaker!

I'll stop tooting now.

Bruce

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-04-2001 06:59 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"A friend's mother-in-law set her home on fire after a major argument one night. It was a huge ranch style house with elecric heat throughout. When they were tearing it down, we removed many 30-50' lengths of 12ga "romex" style cable. We saved everything. Anything in the basement was unharmed. This saved me a fortune in wiring costs."

I assume you didn't use any heat damaged wire... and I'd HATE to meet that mother-in-law...

Many places allow plastic conduit now, which I don't agree with. Full metal jacket (grin) creates fewer problems when there is a local lightning strike.

You have shamed me though, I need to go purchase some GFI sockets for the kitchen and bathroom.


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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 08-04-2001 08:40 PM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry, the mother-in-law died in that fire. They said they could hear her screaming and laughing from outside during the height of the fire before the fire department got there. She scared me. She was a redhead. She liked guns. Brrrrrr!

None of the wire I scarfed was burned in any way.

I removed metal jacketed 'BX' cable from my house that was installed in 1946-48. The wires inside were very overheated and the insulation dry due to the previous owner using a variety of electric heaters all over the house.

I always wondered why he never blew a fuse. When I bought the place, I found out why: pennies behind the plug fuses in the 60 amp fuse box!

It's a wonder that this little wooden house is still standing! My Holmes projector doesent even make the breaker get warm! (THERE! I got it back to a film-collector reference!)

Yesterday, I called our local ABC affiliate and told them about the death of the boy burned in Knoxville, TN. by the gas leak. They were unaware, and I have not heard a mention since then on the news. I guess it's not newsworthy, or not enough viewers 100 miles away in K-town. Pathetic.

Jerry: just install a GFCI breaker in the breaker box in place of the one (s) that control the outlets you want to protect. Mine are by Bryant, and are installed in a Crouse-Hinds breaker panel. The inspectors used something that they brought with them to trip the GFCI when they came for the 2nd inspection.


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