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Author Topic: Painting a Screen
Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 12-15-2001 07:24 PM      Profile for Paul Cassidy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Cassidy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry have not been able to reply, but was at the theatre last night as we screened the film "Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham " 11 reels and 15 min interval, he gave up on painting and we have decided to install a new screen on the curved frame (how do they install without it collapsing forward) the light out put is good , but the port glass looked scratched and aged (discolored) looking into the reflection the Lens looked dirty (anamorphic is connected to primary) No 2 had a a shimmering effect (clear focus then slightly Blurred)more noticed when titles and sub titles are shown, tried to adjust the gate tension this improved but not completely successful (hope not the intermittent)Hows this! there is a cinema supply with a Weststar (cut away front)for turret and a reverse scanner in place of the original ,at the moment he has Weststar Heads on RCA sound Heads ,so it looks like he wants to swap the head of 1 put a xenon on and run Big Reels ,only problem is that he or me will need to do a Change over (unless he gets a Tower)when running 11-12 reelers?

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-15-2001 10:44 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wise decision to replace the screen, the port glass could be replaced inexpensively if it is scratched, replacing leneses would be nice but it sounds like there is a bunch of work needed to bring the place up to par and he needs to set priorities.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 12-16-2001 12:05 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To replace a screen, you have a pole on a dolly. The pole is high enough to reach the top of the screen. You put a cardboard tube on the pole which is the same height of the screen. The bottom of the tube is held at the same height as the bottom of the screen. You unhook one side of the screen, and start to roll it onto the tube, unhooking the laces (or springs) as you go, rolling the dolly across. When done, the pole is tipped down, and the full roll is slid off of the pole, the new screen is slid on and the procedure is reversed.

The dolly has big outriggers on three sides to keep stable. There is an art to lacing a new screen evenly, so I don't suggest you do it yourself. If you do, don't lace- buy the springs people are using now which simply hook to the frame and screen grommets. It's very important the screen size matches the frame; usually the company that supplied the orginal screen keeps records of the size.

Clear 1/4" Plexiglass is not a bad replacement for port windows if low cost is required.

In another topic, it was discussed that some towers would not fit "Harry Potter" (150 mins) so if you usually run long films, (11 full reels would be 220 mins!) check before buying. Also, if I remember, it took about 15 mins just to rewind.

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Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 12-16-2001 12:43 AM      Profile for Paul Cassidy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Cassidy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks John and others for your comments , yes I think it would be a job for cinema supply Techs to take care of and that is a good idea for removing and replacing screens, I've still got mine rolled up in my house ( hope thats the best way to store?) waiting for its New home.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 12-16-2001 09:06 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, as the song goes; "Store it in a cool, dry place."

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Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 12-16-2001 10:03 PM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is often a strip bearing the manufacturer's name, model and
exact dimensions on the edge of the old screen, which saves the awkward chore of trying to measure the size you need.

Though I've cut porthole glass from thin window glass for expediency
and economy, when funds are available, it's best to have a glazier
measure and cut a piece of water-clear optical glass, and sand and bevel the edges and corners for safety and convenience in removing it
for cleaning. When you look through the edge of the glass, if it's dark green, it will not transmit as much light as water-clear glass, and optical quality insures flatness to prevent distortion of the
image.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 12-17-2001 01:48 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John Walsh said: "Clear 1/4" Plexiglass is not a bad replacement for port windows if low cost is required"

I beg to disagree. Plexiglass tends to cause lots of flare in the image, due to internal light-piping. As Gerard notes, water-clear optical glass should be used, ideally having an anti-reflection optical coating. Don't be a CONTRAST KILLER!:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/december99/pytlak.shtml

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 12-17-2001 04:46 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
JP; When I said "low cost" I meant "movie theater low cost," which is very low indeed! I got the impression (though I may be wrong) cost was an issue at Paul's theater, and at $1.50 to 2.25 per square inch, I thought optical glass might be too much. I feel Plexiglass is better than really cheap plate glass.

Although, I also probably shouldn't suggest the cheapest things right away, either!

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-17-2001 06:47 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, could you please expand on the idea of "light piping" in plexiglass? I was under the impression that plexi had a refractive index less than standard glass and could be better suited for port glass if the port "glass" was angled..

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Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 12-18-2001 01:00 AM      Profile for Paul Cassidy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Cassidy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wish it were my theatre then it would not in such a condition ,Automated projection ,just push a button from the Candy Bar you would have the best of both worlds ,contact with your customers and be able to control the viewing conditions from the auditorium ,focus, masking ,sound but I'd better Wake up now, but in reality the things we have been talking about are just normal house keeping in a theatre, if you were a customer would I come to this cinema ,the thing that I was fussy about was the first impression ,you need the pop corn fresh and smelling Yuuuumy is the place clean & tidy are my staff well presented and friendly , are all the lights working and on ,is the auditorium clean with all lights working and on, the non-sync suited to the movie playing "Muriel's Wedding" I had Abba music playing ,but the nost important is the presentation,is it the BEST it could be .

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 12-18-2001 08:35 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry --- you are correct that with a lower refractive index, "light piping" should be less. Perhaps a better term would be more internal reflections and light scatter with Plexiglas. Plastics are also usually more easily scratched or damaged by improper cleaning than glass.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-18-2001 09:39 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For years ORC used to sell a coated plexiglass port material

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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 12-21-2001 02:45 PM      Profile for Dave Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just a thought, and slap me if im crazy, but what about a whitewashing type of paint job. Talking about a pvc matte screen that is 30 years old and lost its luster. A gallon of satin flat water based latex mixed with deionized water to thin it out.

Any idea if that makes it worse or would be an improvement.

Not that i have 30 year old screens and have no money to buy new ones or anything.

Dave

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Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 12-21-2001 04:02 PM      Profile for Paul Cassidy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Cassidy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think if any work in painting the screen would only be Temp as the improvement would be very short term considering the age of the screen in question ( it's been up since the early 70s)and has more than paid it's way and deserves to be retired ,I guess the question here is (as mentioned earlier) priority of management or in this case lack of management ,as I remember this cinema in the early days it was the grandest Suburban Theatre in Auckland ,waterfall Curtain with coloured lights around it's arched proscenium ,lighting trough along both sides meeting at the roof ,big round Red glowing domes along the wall and on the ceiling a huge onclave with coloured lights , at this time all the lighting consists of is Red neon in the side troughs and the fading red Domes on the walls and he doesn't even drop the water fall (I do when I run sessions) but it doesn't have a auto shut off so you have to careful to stop it manually, for this theatre you need a real show man at the helm, I'll tell you the public have told they want improved first , the seats (too hard) to be kept tidy ,stero (surround) sound and good presentation ,then all the features of the cinema restored ,most of all a cinema experience they can't get in the New complexs ,the ability to get your food and drinks sit and take in the ambience of the place listen to the non-sync music and then the light show as it builds to the start of the Feature (the old projectionist insist that no white of the screen should be seen before the start of then film) you need to show the studio icon on the curtain , then open , I have always done it that way (when I've had curtains to use) it's meant to give the allusion that what you see is real, well enough of dream Land .

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-21-2001 04:10 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Whitewashing is a different process using slaked lime and/or white lead IIRC. If you mean you want to thin the paint to a weak consistency, that isn't a good idea. You might have a little less problem with holes filling in, but the brush marks will show and the coating will be uneven. Gordon's idea of using a vaccuum to clear the holes of excess paint is much better.

A simple way to tell whether painting will help increase brightness is to paint a section of white matte board or section of scrap screen, and when it is dry hold it up against the screen with the projected image showing. Only patched or extremely dirty screens benefit noticably.

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