Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » 3 Phase Power to Homes (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: 3 Phase Power to Homes
Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-03-2002 10:39 AM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually Josh it can be done with even less, using only a 3 phase induction motor

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

 |  IP: Logged

Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 02-03-2002 02:52 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
well, then, I'm all ears

Josh


 |  IP: Logged

Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 02-03-2002 02:56 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, that would cost lost of money, and I am saving for other things.
I did try the induction generator with 2 RCA 9050 motors, and was able to get 150 watts out of it before induction collapsed.

See for yourself

Josh


 |  IP: Logged

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-03-2002 03:07 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Josh, didn't we see some 3-phase induction motors in the "Sledge Hammer Specials" Department at Macs?

I have a 3-phase induction motor you can have to goof around with if you want it.


 |  IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-03-2002 04:54 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul,
Does his parents realize he's attempting to burn down their house?
Mark @ GTS


 |  IP: Logged

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-03-2002 06:19 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
LOL!!

Maybe I should get Josh a BIG fire extinguisher for his birthday in a few months.

Actually, Josh is very careful around electrical devices.



 |  IP: Logged

Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-03-2002 06:41 PM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Back when the telephone company was called GTE in Everett, WA. every thursday they had a small silent type auction and would get rid of their current surplus junk. One time I bought a pallet of about half a dozen used 3 phase motors for about $50. The reason I wanted it was that there was one of them that was still brand new in the box. The smallest one was 7-1/2 horse. Not many people want old big 3 phase motors. Mostly cause the general public can't use them. I used them all (except one that was toast)over the years on the air compressor and such. You might look around for that type of situation where you are.

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

 |  IP: Logged

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-03-2002 06:55 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greg, I am also interested in just exactly how a 3-phase induction motor can be converted into a generator. I never really looked into it, but I am under the presumption that railroad locomotives use dynamic braking by converting the traction motors into generators, and the output is completely dumped across huge ballast resistors, thereby making the motor (which is now acting like a generator) look into almost a dead short circuit.

I think most locomotives use AC traction motors these days, as EMD uesd that technology in their locomotives in 1992. I would presume GE followed suit in their locomotives.

Maybe you, Mark, or Will might be able to basically explain it to me.

This is all I really know about it, thanks to a website I stumbled upon.

DYNAMIC BRAKING OPERATION
Dynamic braking is applied to the locomotive only. A dynamic brake interlock keeps the air brakes on the locomotive from being applied when automatic air braking and dynamic braking are being used.

APPLYING DYNAMIC BRAKING
Dynamic braking is applied in the following manner:

1. Move the Throttle handle to IDLE.

CAUTION: To prevent equipment damage when
changing from power to dynamic braking or from
dynamic braking to power, pause 10 seconds with
Throttle handle at IDLE and Dynamic Braking handle
OFF.


2. Move the Dynamic Brake handle to SET-UP position. Then move the handle into the BRAKING sector, as required.
3. After the slack is bunched, advance the Braking handle until the desired braking effort is obtained. Observe and correct braking effort during the initial period of dynamic brake application.
The amount of braking effort obtainable varies with the position of the Dynamic braking handle for various speeds. Maximum braking effort is obtained in the 8th Notch at speeds of about 49 mph.

NOTE: Wheelslip warning may occur while in dynamic braking. This indicates wheels are sliding. Sand is applied automatically to the wheels of sliding unit. Reduce the Braking handle position until the warning stops.

USE OF AIR BRAKES DURING DYNAMIC BRAKING
When necessary, the automatic air brake may be used in conjunction with the dynamic brake. Automatic air brakes will apply on the train but not on the locomotive. If the Automatic Air Brake handle is moved to the EMERGENCY position, the dynamic brake is removed and brakes on the locomotive, as well as those on the train, go into Emergency application.


CAUTION The independent air brake must not be
used during dynamic braking, to avoid flat spots on the
locomotive wheels caused by sliding.

RELEASE OF DYNAMIC BRAKING
Release dynamic braking by moving the Dynamic Braking handle to the OFF position.

Here is one that the engineer really screwed up big time......
......................................................................
Railroad Accident Report
Derailment of Union Pacific Railroad Unit
Freight Tran 6205 West Near Kelso, California
January 12, 1997

NTSB Number RAR-98/01
NTIS Number PB98-916301

Synopsis: On January 12, 1997, about 11:52 a.m. Pacific standard time, the Union Pacific Railroad unit freight train 6205 west derailed 68 cars on the Union Pacific Railroad Los Angeles Subdivision, milepost 238.7, near Kelso, California. The train consisted of 3 locomotive units and 75 loaded covered hopper cars. While descending Cima Hill, the engineer inadvertently activated the multiple-unit engine shutdown switch, which shut down all the locomotive unit diesel engines and eliminated the train's dynamic braking capability. The train rapidly accelerated beyond the 20-mph authorized speed limit despite the engineer's efforts to increase the train's air braking, which the engineer placed in emergency 1 minute and 13 seconds after dynamic braking loss. The train's consist weight was listed at an average of 13 tons per car less than the train actually weighed. The train eventually reached a speed of 72 mph and derailed 68 of its 75 cars while exiting a siding near Kelso, California. No fatalities, injuries, fires, or hazardous materials releases resulted from the accident. The total damage cost was $4,079,152.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the derailment was (1) a prolonged pattern of inattention and lack of action by Union Pacific Railroad management to protect effectively or relocate the multiple-unit engine shutdown switch in SD60M locomotives after the switch had repeatedly been recognized as subject to inadvertent activation; and (2) failure of Union Pacific Railroad management to adequately address critical safety issues such as dynamic braking system operational reliance and protection, and authorized maximum train speeds in the event of dynamic braking failure. Contributing to the severity of the accident was the failure of Union Pacific Railroad management to ensure accurate car weight assessment and training for operating personnel on retainer-setting procedures and effects.

The major safety issues discussed in this report are the placement of safety-critical locomotive cab controls, adequate train-speed safety margins for steep-grade railroads, and the criticality of dynamic braking systems. The report also discusses accurate car weight reporting, the power brake rulemaking process, and the use of air brake retainers.

As a result of this accident investigation, the National Transportation Safety Board makes recommendations to the Federal Railroad Administration, the Association of American Railroads, and the Union Pacific Railroad.

......................................................................
I wonder if the engineer was in the unemployment line after this one...


 |  IP: Logged

Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-03-2002 06:59 PM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Check this out http://www.gwm4-3phase.com/rotary.htm
It's even fancier than the ones I've seen guys use (they didn't have the caps) but this is it pretty much
Thanks to Phil for the link

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

 |  IP: Logged

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-03-2002 07:03 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the link, Greg

 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-03-2002 08:21 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Prevost machines here in Toronto were all 3 phase motors running on single phase using a set of capacitors to fake the 3 phase
The trick is having sufficient capacatance on start up to overcome torque demands yet to maintain a stable 3rd phase for the run cycle
Remember a 3 phase motor will continue to run on 2 phases if it is already spinning when a phase is dropped out

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 02-03-2002 10:20 PM      Profile for Paul Cassidy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Cassidy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
http://www.howstuffworks.com/power4.htm
It seems we have 3phase in our street as I have checked with an electrician (we have overhead lines)and the main transformer is close to our house (we don't have seperate ones on poles as in the pictures)all we need to do is check the Tariffs with the Power Co. run a New power Line to the house a new Meter use single phase to the house and 3phase to the Workshop/Home theatre, still not the cheapest option so I will check out the above options and let you guys know.


 |  IP: Logged

Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-04-2002 06:00 PM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
That's sooo true Gordon. It's very common to get a "good" voltage reading on a leg of 3-PH power even though the circuit is open and not connected to the "source". It is always necessary to isolate the measured circuit to insure there is no back-feeding.

>>> Phil


 |  IP: Logged

Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-04-2002 08:26 PM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
Com'on Mark! Give Josh a break! I think he's soooo cool and talented to try different things. His interest and his youthful expermentation reminds me of me a few (OK several) years ago! (OH, did I mention I caught my folk's house on fire TWO times!) Anyway Josh, DO NOT stop your quest for knowledge! It will be rewarded in the long run!

>>> Phil


 |  IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-04-2002 08:40 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The experiment I can deal with (did similar ones in my yoot). What I am trying to figure out are the scissors! The adjustable wrench I might be able to understand but the scissors? Please don't tell me they are the wire strippers/cutters in this experiment! Or even worse, the points are were used to tighten the coupling on the motors!

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.