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Author Topic: Return To Neverland - Digital Only Presentation
Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 02-12-2002 10:21 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John asked if the present machines are upgradable to the new chips. Personally, I don't know. But I would think that the machines can be upgraded. BTW that question was also asked over on the DCinema Zone forum and so far there's been no answer over there either.

Regarding Aaron's question, the new chips have been mentioned at a couple of the SMPTE Hollywood Section meetings I've attended. (3rd-generation I think. Sounds like a detergent ad, "Now with blacker blacks!") As John mentioned, the new chips match the resolution of the Sony cameras used to originate Star Wars II. Sorry, I have not seen the latest chips myself nor have I talked to anyone who has, but I don't think they are vaporware. The last chips I saw were the current 2G ones at the El Capitan about six months ago (Atlantis) and the ETC a little over a year ago. These 2G chips looked a lot better than the 1G ones used for Star Wars I at the AMC Media Center in Burbank. Those 1G chips suffered from very visible scalloped fixed-pattern noise. Since the summer of 1999 there has been quite an improvement in these chips.

Yes, you can still see pixels with the 2G chips if you sit too close or if you are really looking for them. At the El Cap (screen ~50' wide for scope) I like to sit in the balcony, and at the ETC (~60' wide for scope) near the back, in order to minimize this. At those distances (roughly 4-5 screen heights) with the current chips I believe the average theater-goer wouldn't notice the pixel artifacts.

Oh, don't get me started on edge enhancement! Seems like everyone uses too much. Too much detail or too much aperture correction (boy am I dating myself) are just fancy ways of adding noise to a picture.

Anyway, here's hoping we get to see the latest 3G stuff at ShoWest!

Paul
SMPTE Hollywood Section; temporarily sloughed in Las Vegas
Underemployed mercenary film/video projectionist/engineer
"Otaku wa tsurai yo" <-- Yeah I know, bad pun. Sue me.
It's tough being a fan!


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-13-2002 01:16 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention:

7k bulb for DLP vs 4k bulb for film on the same screen? They really need to fix that. Xenons not be cheap! While what I saw looked pretty good, they still do have a long way to go before it is cheap enough for exhibitors to consider it as a replacement for film.

Like I said, they need 70mm quality and they also need to be able to project it on HUGE (80 foot +) screens with the same size or even smaller xenons. I wish we had a registered TI rep we could throw our questions at.

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-14-2002 12:08 AM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I will answer the questions asked here. The only one I don't have the information handy on is the screen size.

Scott: Yes, we will have 35mm film prints for backup. I have one setup in the big house (563 seats) and the other in a medium (266 seats). This is how we were able to keep Oceans 11 running for 9 weeks on DLP and other titles. Schedule will probably work out the the large house is occupied for 2 weeks before being release to a new film print. Medium house will run for at least 2 more weeks before attendance forces to go to film prints.

Brad: The chips are the original black chips. I do expect that the heads will be replaced with the new Mark VII heads in time for EP 2.
I have not heard anything about a new chip with "Blacker blacks" although I wouldn't put it past them and being developed.

Screen size I will have in the next couple of days.

Paul.

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Wes Hughes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 175
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 02-14-2002 02:47 AM      Profile for Wes Hughes   Email Wes Hughes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave, I agree with you about satellite and digital cable. The cable company came around a year or so ago and offered us a FREE upgrade to DIGITAL cable! We took the new reciever box and hooked it up. It SUCKED! The only thing good was the channel guide! I called them back and told them I didn't want the digital cable anymore...i wanted my old cable back. They acted very surprised !

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 02-14-2002 10:28 AM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Digital cable (at least the version offered here) is a total joke if you care about picture quality. It looks like bad VHS. DirecTV isn't much better. I was so disillusioned with DirecTV at one point that I called them to cancel the service. They asked me why and I told them it's because on their "standard" channels, the picture looks like crap on my 53" TV (pay-per-view is acceptable). They were "shocked" to hear this -- why, there must be something wrong with my receiver or dish. No, sorry guys, it's your picture. I know you're just a service rep, but tell your engineering dept. that at least 1 customer knows what you're doing with bandwidth allocation tricks that reduce resolution. I finally scaled down the subscription to their most basic service, which gets me pay-per-view movies and not much more, for $8/mo.

------------------
- dave
Look at this! His chin strap has been cut!

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-14-2002 10:41 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David, I'm very surprised with your report of problems with Direc-TV. We have it going into a Hitachi Ultravision and the picture is outstanding on TCM and most of the other channels, to the point that differences in origination feed can be apparent.

I wonder if your area has a bad transponder aimed at it, or perhaps this could somehow be linked to Direc-PC usage? The only times we get poor reception is during heavy rain fade or the spring/fall sunouts.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 02-14-2002 11:10 AM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry, not to be argumentative, but it's definitely not a transponder or receiver problem. Like I said, pay-per-view movies and events actually look pretty good. But the standard fare such as Fox news, AMC, etc. all look like the resolution is no better than VHS. To see what I'm talking about, you need to do a direct comparison of the same broadcast via satellite vs. good analog cable or over-the-air. The satellite picture looks superficially good, but detail is sorely lacking.

DirectTV and DishNetwork have a fixed amount of bandwidth available for all their channels combined. That is, the transponder has "n" megabits total, which has to be split up between all the channels being carried. The more channels they carry (like when they add local TV stations), the less bandwidth is available for each channel. They can dynamically increase or decrease bandwidth to individual channels, and ppv shows get more than, say, news channels.

------------------
- dave
Look at this! His chin strap has been cut!


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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-14-2002 11:27 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmmm. What I thought could be origination differences in picture quality could be allocation issues? Interesting. Our viewing habits may just happen to hit on channels that get decent bandwidth. I'll admit to Tivoing stuff like "Who's Line Is It, Anyway?" at a lower quality anyway, so I wouldn't notice the difference on those channels. I don't consider it argumentative when someone with a greater knowledge brings me up to speed.

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 02-14-2002 08:08 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess the topic has drifted a bit, but regarding DirecTV, I used to be a spacecraft software engineer for PanAmSat, the company that flies the DirecTV birds. DTV uses varying amounts of compression depending on the service--movies get more BW than the other services, so movies tend to look a little better than the other services.

When DTV won the right to carry local programming, they had to increase the amount of compression they use on all services in order to fit the new traffic aboard the then existing payloads, resulting in an increase in visible compression artifacts. Very soon the new DirecTV 4S will be on-line (maybe it is already). The D4S bird (the 'S' means 'spot') will carry the local traffic for the 26 designated markets with a spot beam for each. That will allow the other birds in the constellation to return to lower levels of compression, which should result in better pictures. BTW the DTV HD services weren't affected by any of this--they're on a separate bird.

As for other signal degradations, all of the DTV services are at Ku band, which is somewhat more susceptible to rain fade than C band. I'm not sure about sunspot effects at Ku band, but there are sun outages, which are another issue entirely. Basically you only have to deal with those for a couple of minutes on a couple of days during each equinox. Ephemeris predicts for sun outages are readily available for use by TVRO owners or earth station operators.

And now, back to the movies!

Paul
Mercenary film/video projectionist/engineer
Member, Otakus Over Forty
"Otaku wa tsurai yo" <-- Yeah I know, bad pun. Sue me.
It's tough being a fan!

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 02-15-2002 12:24 AM      Profile for Greg Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have also observed that digital compression on Dish Network has been much more distracting lately than it was several months ago. For example, if you watch a typical interview and the man who's speaking is moving his head while speaking, his eyes might not move in synch with the rest of his face. He nods and his eyes (which are a different color from his skin) take a half a second to move in relation to the rest of his head.

It's awful! I don't know why they even bother to put an S-Video output on the receiver because that just makes it look worse! On the other hand, watching a DVD from an S-Video connection looks great.


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