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Author Topic: Windows XP problems
Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-10-2002 12:37 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, I just discovered something else. Windows ME started running slower than hell in my 733mhz with over 300 megs of RAM. It started that when the CPU blower started to go south. Maybe that was just a coincidence.

Anyway, I switched boot up drives, (a 40 gig drive) and re-loaded ME and all the other programs I need, minus a few funky ones I don't need.

I think I might have made an error. I copied an entire directory about 2 gigs worth of pictures, MOV's, AVI's, etc. to the boot drive. Then, I made a new directory, and eliminated all the duplicate stuff from the 2 gig directory. The new directory turns out to be about 1.3 gigs.

Then, I deleted the entire 2 gig directory, and copied a 10 gig directory of wav files, and a 800 meg directory of MP3 files from the old boot drive.

When I finished, the machine seems to run very nicely, boots up fast, etc. So, I decided to defrag the drive. I started to defrag it about 6 hours ago, and it is still munching on it.

If I watch it, it will go through its sequence, then after shoveling crap around, it quits.....like it is talking to itself and saying, "This shit won't fit" and starts over again. It has been doing that since I started the defrag program, and it has finally reached the 79% complete mark. I would suspect it will want to munch on it for another two hours or more before it is finished.

I think I stuffed too much data down its throat.

I wonder if it will work when it is finished defragging.


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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 04-10-2002 12:21 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, Defragging can take a LONG time, depending on the drive's performance, etc. Let it finish.

ME vs. 2000 vs. XP: As someone else said, Windows 2000 Professional with Service Pack 2 is amazingly stable. When I was working at Dynamix (game developer), all our programmers and artists ran on Win2K and I can count the number of blue-screen crashes on the thumb of one hand (and that turned out to be a Novell client driver issue, not a Windows issue). I'm running XP Home Version on this PC, and so far it has been perfectly stable for me as well.

Macintoshes: I confess I am Windows through and through. But my Dad bought himself an iMac when they first came out. It was his first computer, so he had no experience with it at all. I went over to his place and helped him get it going. I supported a half-dozen or so Macs at Dynamix, so I was not unfamiliar with the OS. Well, helping him get acclimated to that machine reinforced my belief that the Mac OS is NOWHERE NEAR as intuitive as current implementations of Windows. I could not for the life of me figure out how to do simple tasks like cutting and pasting text from one app to another. That's just one example too. There were other things. Try configuring network settings for example. I could almost never find any help in the help system either. It was a very frustrating experience. Yes, I'm corrupted by Windows, but damn it, don't tell me how easy and intuitive the Mac OS environment is because you're talking to deaf ears. You Mac users are just as guilty of being brainwashed as us Windows users.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-10-2002 01:53 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David, the 40 gig boot drive is a Maxtor UDMA 7200RPM Drive, using the correct ribbon cable. it has 18 gigs of data, and 22 gigs of free space. It took about 9 hours to defrag it after everything was installed. When it was done, I re-booted, and it immediately went into a scandisk mode. When it was finished, it booted normally. The computer is running fine.

I just thought 9 hours was excessive - even for the first time.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 04-10-2002 02:07 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, yes, 9 hours seems long, maybe too long. Must have had a whole lot of very small files or something, I don't know.

More about Macintoshes: Mac users brag about the stability of their systems compared to Windows. Give me a break! Those early iMacs should never have gone into production. They were notoriously unstable. Steve Jobs' "Cube" system was plagued by overheating problems. My Dad's iMac still, to this day, freezes up on him several times a week, and all he does with it is web surfing and occasionally printing stuff out. That's it! He isn't running multiple applications or doing anything exotic. The hardware has been swapped, the firmware is up to date, yadda yadda, but it still likes to lock up. Apple support kept insisting "Oh, you just need more RAM, or the latest OS patch, the problem is your printer, blah bhal". The Macs we ran at Dynamix were no more reliable than WinTel systems. It makes no difference if the problem is in the hardware or the software, to the user it's an unstable work platform.



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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-10-2002 04:31 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul:
During defragging, the system might do a disk write - LOTS of normally running programs do, from MSupdate to sound card utilities. Defrag is designed as a background process and must allow the system to do other stuff. Every time there's a disk write defrag has to start all over again, as it takes a sort of snapshot of the drive to plan what it's going to do... and if the disk is modified that snapshot is invalid. That sounds like what you describe.
Fine if you actually run it as background. If you want to just let the machine chug away on its own, halt all nonessential processes.
ctrl-alt-del brings up a list of most running programs, you only really need explorer. If you "end task" all the rest defrag will run without the stuttering you describe. A program called "taskinfo" http://www.iarsn.com/index.html#/download.html will let you see ALL running programs (they can hide from the ctrl-alt-del list) and you can end tasks one at a time without having to ctrl-alt-del again for every one (I tend to do it twice in a row occasionally and force a shutdown...).
Running defrag in safe mode works too, but you will get slower disk performance (= longer time defragging) if you have ATA66/100/133 drives - a driver is needed for more than ATA33 speed and safe mode doesn't load drivers. Drives on offboard adapter cards (like Promise ATA cards or even some SCSI cards) may not even be available to see or defrag in safe mode.


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-10-2002 04:43 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave, from the time I started Defrag until the time it finished, I didn't even touch the keyboard or mouse. I didn't want to interfere with its process in the slightest.

What puzzled me is that in addition to the excessiv time it took, scandisk initiated when I booted up (the computer was shut down properly). I wonder if defrag might have been working around a lost file....I don't know.

Maybe it is a gentle hint of an impending drive failure. What do you think?

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Steven Gorsky
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Frederick, MD, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 04-10-2002 07:36 PM      Profile for Steven Gorsky   Author's Homepage   Email Steven Gorsky   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, Dave M. is correct - programs running in the background might decide to become active, and perform disk writes, which interupts the defrag. These background programs might not have an icon idicating the're running. Sometimes Windows will decide to try to do other maintenance tasks itself, even when defrag is running, which also interupts it.

BTW of all the Windows 9x OSs, ME is the worst. If you really need to run a 9x version of Windows I recommend 98 Second Edition. For NT like others have said, use 2000 with Service Pack 2.

Steven Gorsky

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-10-2002 09:01 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave and Steven, I never thought about shutting down all the programs running in the background. There was probably a bunch of them. Next time I defrag, I'll do just that.

Thanks for the info.


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-11-2002 09:08 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Agreed. The original iMacs suck. My dad has one and it seems to work OK, but it does some really weird things that it shouldn't do from time to time. I've never really argued the stability issue of Mac OS, since it DOES crash on me (I push it damn hard). OS X has only ever crashed on me once, though, and that was the public beta. When the Mac OS does crash though (OS 9) all you have to do is a simple reboot and everything is usually running back to normal.

Dynamix, eh? I owned one of their games for the awesome 3DO game system back when it was popular. Oh wait it was NEVER popular! It had Michael Dorn in it. I assume you met him since his voice was in the game and you were credited as "Dude who recorded Michael Dorn's voice".

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 04-11-2002 11:15 AM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe, that 3DO title must be Stellar 7 or something like that. Are you sure my name is in the credits? I didn't have anything to do with that game. I'll bet it was David Aughenbaugh. I think he worked in the group that did all the audio stuff for our games back then.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-11-2002 11:32 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, it specifically said "That dude who likes pinball machines and will eventually post on Film-Tech once it is implemented." It was Stellar 7. The only thing I really remember about that game is the chest pounding bass that was emmitted from my subwoofer-less system every time the cannon was fired. Amazing sound effects.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 04-11-2002 12:08 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Back in those days, we did almost all of the music and sound effects in-house. Ken Rogers probably did the sounds effects (no, not Kenny Rogers). We had a couple full-time professional musicians composing and performing the music. Also a full-time photographer (I mean photographs, not videos). For games like Aces of the Pacific, Red Baron, etc. we had a full-time historian! For AotP, they sent a group to Japan to interview surviving Japanese pilots (on video). This stuff was fascinating and of historical importance. Wonder what happened to all that footage.

Later, after the big bad new corporate owners came along, they decided all this stuff could be outsourced, so they let all the sound & music people go. But we did keep a video production department, headed by a guy named Jim Carey (no, not THAT Jim Carrey). That video group did some amazing work. Dynamix video stuff was the envy of the rest of the company. That group is still working for the new owner (Vivendi Universal) in Bellevue.

Sorry, probably more than you wanted to know.


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