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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » The Pledge of Alligiance has been ruled "Unconstitutional" (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: The Pledge of Alligiance has been ruled "Unconstitutional"
Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 06-30-2002 02:54 AM      Profile for Paul Cassidy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Cassidy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes David there is more than one , but I thought two at the most , but with singing the Moari Version first no-one sings the whole thing anymore ...especially at Rugby games.

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A KIWI eats,roots & Leaves.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-30-2002 10:03 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, the Constitution has been "found" to not protect all religious practices...such as you can't practice polygimay just becasuse you are Morman. Nor if your "religion" requires a human sacrifice..etc. However, you are welcome to _believe_ what you want.

The whole judical system has it's kinks. Fortunately, "rulings" are expressed in "opinions" and as such, can change over time.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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David Favel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 764
From: Ashburton, New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 06-30-2002 05:05 PM      Profile for David Favel   Email David Favel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, I believe New Zealanders started singing with fervour at rugby games during and after the ill fated Springboks tour.


True, I don't know anyone that knows the Maori version.

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Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 06-30-2002 06:25 PM      Profile for Paul Cassidy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Cassidy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just for you David....the first verse
E Ihoa, Atua,
O nga Iwi! Matoura.
Ata whaka rongona;
Me aroha noa.
Kia hua ko te pai;
Kia tau to atawhai;
Manaakitia mai
Aotearoa

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A KIWI eats,roots & Leaves.

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Bob Maar
(Maar stands for Maartini)


Posts: 28608
From: New York City & Newport, RI
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 06-30-2002 09:43 PM      Profile for Bob Maar   Author's Homepage   Email Bob Maar   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Semper Fi.....and may it always be so


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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 07-01-2002 07:21 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Adam Fraser writes:

quote:
From what I have heard and seen. The money would be given to parents to do with as they choose in picking a school. If the parent picks a religious school, that is their choice. If the parent picks a arts based charter school, that is also their choice. In my opinion, the state is not supporting a religion because they are giving the parents the money to make their own choice on where to educate their children. Thus not directly involving the government subsidizing religion.

A sticky one, I admit. On the other hand, you could argue that the government is subsidising religion because it is allowing taxpayers' money to be spent on religious education (i.e. it is not excluding religious schools from the voucher scheme).

IMHO this is an important issue of principle in any genuinely democratic country, not so much on account of Christian denominations but because other religions can - and in the UK have - argue that subsidising one sort of religious education but not another amounts to discrimination. Last year a Muslim school in West London hit the headlines after it was discovered that it had been teaching the kids various hardline beliefs, e.g. that capital punishment should be imposed for adultery and that limbs should be amputated for a number of minor crimes, some of which aren't even crimes under English law. As I remember, this school was not in any way state subsidised (it was a private school which the parents paid), but it did have a licence from the Department of Education, which basically certified that it was delivering education which met the standards of this country.

At the other end of the scale, Rastafarians smoking cannabis as part of their religious practices have often complained they are being discriminated against by the drug being illegal.

So how do you deal with religious beliefs that directly contradict the laws and customs of a given country? With difficulty in many cases, and it gets even more difficult when you bring religion into state education. That is why I would prefer to see 'faith schools' kept out of the state system altogether. Private ones are OK if they meet the required educational standards and if they are not teaching the kids anything which contravenes the criminal laws and socially accepted norms of the country in which they operate, but if anyone tells me that my taxes should be spent teaching kids a 'religion' that makes women wear bin liners and executes them for doing things which aren't even illegal in civilised countries, then the words 'over', 'dead' and 'body' come to mind...


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Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 07-01-2002 08:38 AM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

In the Cleveland voucher action, 96% of the vouchers were spent towards tuition in religious schools.
In the US the great majority of non-public sschools are operated by the Roman Catholic Church. There are a small fraction operated by other religions, but the number of private, non-religious schools
is miniscule, consisting of old-tie academy-type schools for the rich.

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Jennifer Osborne
Film Handler

Posts: 27
From: Columbus, IN, USA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 07-03-2002 04:27 AM      Profile for Jennifer Osborne   Email Jennifer Osborne   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Even though I never thought too much about the pledge, I have realized that we are no longer "One nation under God", but "one nation under Canada and over Mexico..."

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-03-2002 05:42 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jenni, I like that one...

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Bob Maar
(Maar stands for Maartini)


Posts: 28608
From: New York City & Newport, RI
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 07-03-2002 06:13 AM      Profile for Bob Maar   Author's Homepage   Email Bob Maar   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jennifer,

I also like what you wrote...however in the Pledge Allegiance is to the Flag of "The United States of America". Canadian and Mexican's are not refereed to as American's. Even though Canada is over the United States of America and Mexico is below - all of the Universe is "Under God".


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Bob Maar
(Maar stands for Maartini)


Posts: 28608
From: New York City & Newport, RI
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 07-09-2002 05:41 PM      Profile for Bob Maar   Author's Homepage   Email Bob Maar   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ut, Oh! I just heard they were going to outlaw money because it says,

"In God We Trust" Hurry, right away fill your cuboards. Buy while you can. Send all money with this slogan to my attention..at once.

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Hillary Charles
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 748
From: York, PA, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 07-09-2002 06:23 PM      Profile for Hillary Charles   Email Hillary Charles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bob,

I would love to comply with your directive, but Soupy Sales got all mine.

Hillary

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Bob Maar
(Maar stands for Maartini)


Posts: 28608
From: New York City & Newport, RI
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 07-09-2002 06:26 PM      Profile for Bob Maar   Author's Homepage   Email Bob Maar   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hillary...What does Soupy have besides money and fame and celebrity..that I don't have? Soupy called and said send the money to Bob.


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Hillary Charles
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 748
From: York, PA, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 07-09-2002 06:56 PM      Profile for Hillary Charles   Email Hillary Charles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bob,

You're much funnier than Soupy. Whatever I have left is yours.


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Bob Maar
(Maar stands for Maartini)


Posts: 28608
From: New York City & Newport, RI
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 07-09-2002 10:35 PM      Profile for Bob Maar   Author's Homepage   Email Bob Maar   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hillery, Thanks I will take it.

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