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Topic: Do you pump the gas, or are you lazy?

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 06-28-2002 02:17 PM

When rewinding prints that don't have an anti-static conductive layer like the one Kodak VISION Color Print Films use, keep a hand on the metal bench or rewind so the moving film doesn't build up a static charge on your body. Or wear conductive shoes, or a wrist grounding strap.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 06-28-2002 02:37 PM

I don't think I've ever been zapped when getting out of a car. Probablly because it's always so phuggin humid 'round these parts!

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 06-28-2002 03:02 PM

John, that reminds me of high-speed rewind on plastic wheels where the spindles are not grounded!

The static build up is so strong, the fireworks really fly!!!!!I have observed strong discharges in access of one inch! Now, that's one helluva spark!

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 06-28-2002 03:09 PM

Paul: Before conductive KODAK VISION Color Print film, winding prints was like the belt in a Van de Graaf generator, happily moving and depositing static charge, allowing it to build up to "shocking" levels.

http://www.amasci.com/emotor/vdg.html
http://www.amasci.com/emotor/belt.html

http://home.attbi.com/~kr4495/vdgg/vdgg.html

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 06-28-2002 03:22 PM

John: Shocking levels, indeed.

They will flat out knock the unsuspecting operator flat on his or her butt! Been there....

Being hit with discharges like that....well, ONCE is once too often.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 06-28-2002 05:43 PM

We don't have self-serve here (yet) and it's very humid here so I doubt that would be a problem.

Cell phones! Well...That's another story altogether. Even the kids have cellulars.

I first encountered the problem of static during the year I spent in Detroit. I lived in fear of doorknobs.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

posted 06-28-2002 06:11 PM

I haven't had a car for almost twenty years now, but during the few years that I did have one, 1978-82, almost all petrol stations were self-service. The nearest one to where I lived was still attendant service at the time, and as I only drove about five or ten miles a month, I could always fill up there, so I have never had the 'pleasure' of using a petrol pump. I doubt if there is a station anywhere in London now which is not self-service, and few elsewhere; The odd one in a very small country village maybe. My parents never owned a car, but my father used to hire one during the one week of our holiday each year in the '60s. I think all stations were attendant served at that time.I'm quite surprised that you still have any non self service stations in the USA, almost twenty years after we got rid of them. Keep them, self-service is a pain.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-28-2002 06:27 PM

You can lay a xenon lamp on the rewind bench, still in the "clamshell" of course, then connect the positive lead to something grounded. Get a good charge on yourself by rewinding some film then touch the negative end of the lamp. You'll get a brief flash of light as the static discharges through the lamp.

Happened to me, once, by accident. I had a lamp, in a box on the bench because I just got finished checking-in a new shipment. I had to rewind some film so I set it aside. When I picked up the lamp the lead touched against the metal frame of the bench and, "Blink!!", the lamp lit up! I thought it was cool so I did it again for the other guys. We all took turns doing it.

I used to do it for other people from time to time when I was training them about xenons. It makes a neat little diversion that just happens to be quasi-educational too.

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Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 06-28-2002 08:21 PM

Not just cell phones, but once a person across the pump from me LIT UP A CIGARETTE!!

There are also those warnings about placing a gas container on the ground before filling it, as leaving it on a car or in a truck bed could cause a static spark. Nobody listens to that, either.

Ken -- I've been shocked plenty of times getting out of the car in the fall/winter months (although Florida never really has winter months). As painful as it sometimes is, it brings me back to my print building days. *sigh*

Personally, I think it should all be full-service. And bring back the on-site mechanics instead of those stupid trendy espresso bars ala "Starbucks"

=TMP=

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Gracia L. Babbidge
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 709
From: Bowdoin, Maine
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 06-29-2002 12:52 AM

John 'the Human Search Engine' Pytlak said: "In the Northeastern USA, it usually occurs in the winter, when the humidity is low."

I'm well aware of when the 'static-y' time of the year is!
However, it just so happens that this past winter, I didn't get zapped getting into or out of my (or anyone else's) vehicle.

Aren't I lucky?

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Charles Everett
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: New Jersey
Registered: May 2001

posted 06-29-2002 08:34 AM

New Jersey bans self-serve gas for the same reason as Oregon. Any time the Legislature brings up a bill to legalize self-serve, the gas station lobby cries "WOLF!" and the bill dies in committee.

I've pumped my own gas in New York, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, Vermont, Massachusetts and Florida. Never had a problem.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 06-29-2002 10:33 AM

So how exactly does a static charge build up when rewinding prints? Do you have to be holding the film between your fingers with one hand(as everyone should do when inspecting a print for the first time)?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 06-29-2002 11:38 AM

Ken, the charging is very much like that that occurs in the Van de Graaf generator:

"Notice that the belt and the roller are made from two different materials. When the rubber belt touches the plastic roller, chemical bonds form and the charges in the surface atoms of the two materials share unequally. As the roller rotates, the belt peels away and the surfaces separate again. The belt and roller surfaces take their equal and opposite charges with them. This whole process is called "frictional charging", but since no friction is actually required, it's more accurate to call it "electrification by contact." "

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

posted 06-29-2002 12:23 PM

"I've pumped my own gas in New York, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, Vermont and Massachusetts. Never had a problem."

Here in England it has been almost universal for so long that people seem to have stopped complaining about it, but the usual objection was that the pumps were usually filthy, and it was was very easy to get hands, suit, dress etc., covered in oil and muck. This usually happens on the way to an important business or social appointment.

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Dennis Benjamin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1445
From: Denton, MD
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 06-29-2002 09:21 PM

I visited Oregon once.....and rented a car... and got out at the gas station....to pump my gas...and got yelled at. Quite an experience...however I never use my cell phone when pumping gas -and I am very aware of static electricity. I was told a story once about a basketball player who was fueling his Ferrari(while it was running) and was badly burned in a fuel fire that was a direct result of static electricity. Being a projectionist for many years and working at the Motorola Plant in Plantation, Florida - I am sort of an expert in Static Electricity.

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"Running through life at 24 frames per second"

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