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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Author
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Topic: This Old House (I just bought.)
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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 08-12-2002 10:16 AM
Gas lines should NOT be used as the service electrical ground:  http://www.niagaramohawk.com/busind/pwrqual/basics/22_grnd.html "Commonly accepted grounds, such as water pipes, should be checked to be sure they do not have PVC connections or feeds. Gas piping should not be used as a ground. Not only is it a violation of the National Electrical Code (NEC), but sparks during maintenance could be a considerable hazard." However, the gas piping now needs to be bonded to the service: This link is too long!!! "250.104 (B) – This section reaffirms that gas piping that is installed in or attached to a building or structure must be bonded to the service at any of the specified locations. The bonding jumper is to be sized per 250.122." ------------------ John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243 e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
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Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 08-12-2002 10:26 AM
I think anyone rewiring would do well to use BX cable (flexible spiral wound steel shielded) and tubular conduit in the basement and any exposed areas. BX shield itself serves for grounding all utility boxes, but modern BX 3-wire has a green wire within, so you're doubly grounded. AND protected when hanging a picture or shelf, if your nail penetrates plaster or wallboard. The extra cost of safer wiring is of no great consequence, since the cost of a licensed electrician's labor is your main expenditure, and would comply with home insurance demands and your sense of inner peace. EDIT: The framing carpenter seen here has hammered his last nail, and I deleted him in accord with Brad's policy that graphics should aid understanding of the content of the post. An illustration of an electrician with his union button and license number visible on his cap as he installs BX and symetrically branching conduit cables in a breaker box, using a wire stripper and not his teeth, would be far more pertinent. Unfortunately, I don't have such a photo at hand.--Gerard
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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 08-13-2002 05:20 AM
I am a little leary of those real old houses...You never know how many bodies are buried in the basement or hid between the walls.  There is an old house in my home town of Manitowoc, Wisconsin when I was a punk kid in the early 50's. That particular old house had some "legends." I heard recently that the old house still stands, and it still has a "reputation." Last year, I heard that the inside floor plan did not match the foot print of the house. I remember my parents telling me not to go near that house when I was about 10 or 11 years old. It was only a couple of blocks away when I lived on 13th street. Yet, after 52 years or so since I was aware of it, nobody apparently had the balls to find out what is between the inside floor plan and the house shell. Spooky, huh? Maybe it was the home of the "Boogie Man."  ******************************************************* The Boogie Man by Barry M. Caceres Dark... shadows dance around the closet door. I pull the sheets up hight. I must find a place to hide. Dread... a cold draft drifts along the floor. I know that he's inside. I can't let out a cry. Cold... the creature closes in; I can feel his claws. I feel chills climb up my spine. I fear that I will die. Creep... he crawls beneath my bed, through cracks in the walls. I try to hide my eyes. I pray the fear subsides. Sleep... the Sandman silences my inner screams. I try to clear my sight. I can't put up a fight. Sigh... my pounding heart's subdued as I drift into dreams. I fly inside my mind. I will survive the night. Bruce and Randy: Don't let the Boogie Man getcha! 
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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000
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posted 08-13-2002 08:20 AM
Don: Does the Japanese electrical system ground one side of their final distribution as a neutral? If not then maybe that's why they don't feel a need for a ground since there is no "hot" on a floating system.Barry: Unless it's changed in recent years I think the typical large 240V appliance (range, clothes dryer) doesn't have a ground separate from neutral. The hard wired installation you had simply duplicated what a plug-pigtail & receptacle would have. Those were 3 prongs with 2 hots and a neutral. Lets not get too carried away with grounding. At most outlets around the house it will not be used at all. Nice to have flexibility in where to plug in computers etc. that will make use of a ground but if there is difficulty and expense involved I'd rewire just where it's needed. Sometimes things border on the ridiculous such as little AC-adaptor power supplies with polarized plugs (what for?) or devices with grounded 3-prong plugs where there is a plastic housing and nothing there to ground.
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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 08-13-2002 11:05 AM
Reading this it would appear that domestic wiring here is a lot more straightforward than in the US.We are all single phase, 240V. Even in days gone by when we had round pin plugs and sockets, those were three pin and so carried an earth and were polarized. Most domestic appliances are connected on a ring circuit, with each outlet rated at 13A. Bigger stuff, like cookers and showers will have it's own radial circuit, rated according to the needs of the appliance. Nowadays cable used is generally 'T&E' (twin and earth), in the past single cores were run in steel conduit buried in the walls, with the conduit being used as the earth conductor. The only two pin outlets I've ever seen here are non-polarized, usually in bathrooms or bedrooms, fed via an isolating transformer for electric razors. It's illegal to have any other kind of outlet in a bathroom. Don, Japan sounds like what was being described to me by a couple of guys who'd done a job in Thailan. Apparently there they have 110v and 220v supplies, using different connectors. Invariably the two voltages are often sourced from different phases, and the outlets are close together. The guys had racks with both 100v and 220v equipment in them, two supplies out of phase with each other so the potential phase to phase voltage worried them somewhat!
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