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Author Topic: Todd-AO
Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 08-14-2002 12:58 PM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The higher film-speed should also have influenced the sound quality positively, especially in the high-frequency range. That also adds some insight to the topic about the Todd-AO sound characteristics that I started in the technical forum.
Are the versions of those movies only different in camera angle or are there also differences in the way the scenes are cut?
Michael

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John Pytlak
Film God

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From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
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 - posted 08-14-2002 01:33 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I recall some scenes in "Oklahoma" were actually different takes between the two versions.

From Marty Hart's American Widescreen Museum:

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wingto5.htm

"This required different camera setups and somewhat altered staging to produce the 35mm version. With the recent availability of the film on laser disc, transferred from the 30fps 65mm negative, most people agree that the Todd-AO version is superior in every way."

And from Steve Kraus's website:

http://www.govst.edu/users/gaskrau/technote.html

"Because 30 fps does not convert readily to 24 fps to make general release prints, Oklahoma! was also shot on alternate takes in 35mm CinemaScope. The 35mm version, with distinctly different performances is the more widely seen version. The 2nd film, Michael Todd's Around the World in 80 Days was shot with alternate takes at 24 fps and 30 fps, in both cases on 65mm film."

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
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Bill Gabel
Film God

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From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
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 - posted 08-14-2002 02:55 PM      Profile for Bill Gabel   Email Bill Gabel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On Steve Kraus's website
http://www.govst.edu/users/gaskrau/technote.html

It shows an ad from when "Oklahoma" opened at the Rivoli theatre
in New York. Note the sound format.
"Oklahoma" in 70mm 6-Channel Hi-Fi Orthosonic Sound.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

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From: Loma Linda, CA
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 - posted 08-15-2002 02:13 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There were also dual versions shot of the Fox Grandeur film The Big Trail: the two versions had separate directors of photography (Arthur Edeson for the 70mm version, Lucien Andriot for the 35). Around the time of the conversion to sound hundreds of films were released in dual talkie and silent versions.

I once showed a 70mm print of The Sand Pebbles - very pink as I recall, but the sound was excellent. The play-in and play-out music was all still there.


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Thomas Hauerslev
Master Film Handler

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From: Copenhagen, Denmark
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 - posted 08-15-2002 02:23 AM      Profile for Thomas Hauerslev   Author's Homepage   Email Thomas Hauerslev   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just for the record, there are at least 4 films shot in Todd-AO 30fps; "Oklahoma!", "The Miracle of Todd-AO" (short 1956), "Around the World in 80 Days" and "Cinespace 70" (short 1986).

List of Todd-AO films


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Cheers, Thomas
www.in70mm.com
www.dp70.com
www.70mm.dk


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Mitchell Cope
Master Film Handler

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From: Overland Park, KS, United States
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 - posted 08-15-2002 07:17 PM      Profile for Mitchell Cope   Email Mitchell Cope   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just a few notes about the Todd-AO version of “Oklahoma!”.

After the intermission, as Jud is supposed to be escorting Laurey to the dance, a scary runaway buggy scene plays out. This scene was surely added to be the “roller coaster” type ride in the film, narrowly missing various trees and things.

At the auction, when Aunt Eller yells “sold”, her gavel hits down and breaks off as planned. What was not planned, is that in the Todd-AO version the gavel head flies off hitting the camera lens area. The actors are stunned for a moment, but the director hasn’t yelled “cut”. They pick right back up… a real keeper for Todd-AO.

A major goof in the Todd-AO version, probably because the shot was filmed first, is when Gordon MacRae and Shirley Jones come out of the farm house singing “Oklahoma!” Gordon grabs a porch column that is supposed to be holding up the porch. The column comes completely off its base before he puts it back with a little “whoops” in his eyes.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
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 - posted 08-16-2002 10:44 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is the anamorphic TODD AO35 still used if not what was the last feature in it
I remember that some of the lens were very sharp and fast compared to others on the market at that time

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Darren Briggs
Master Film Handler

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From: York, UK
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 - posted 08-16-2002 05:08 PM      Profile for Darren Briggs   Author's Homepage   Email Darren Briggs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The start to Oklahoma in 70mm is different to the 35mm scope version. The 70mm version has titles on a black background and opens with a shot pushing through the corn field, the 35mm scope has pictures of the farm and surrounding area with the titles over the top. and cuts out the pushing through tthe corn field shot totaly. This lessens the impact that the 70mm print has.
Does anyone know if there still is a 70mm print in the U.K.??
One was shown at bradford a couple of years back, maybe Dick if you read this post will know?

Darren

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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

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From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
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 - posted 08-16-2002 05:21 PM      Profile for Claude S. Ayakawa   Author's Homepage   Email Claude S. Ayakawa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Although the very first showing of "OKLAHOMA" in Hawaii was in 35mm at the Kuhio, the movie played here many times after that over the years and every showing was in 70mm Todd A0. I think the last time it played here was at the now defunct Cinerama Theatre during one of their 70mm festivals about five years ago with "LAWRENCE OF ARABIA", and "2001".

-Claude

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

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 - posted 08-16-2002 05:43 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>Is the anamorphic TODD AO35 still used if not what was the last feature in it<<

The last two titles I know of with the 'TODD-AO 35' credit were 'Flash Gordon'(1980) and 'Legend Of The Lone Ranger'(1981)

-Aaron

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Stephen Furley
Film God

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From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
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 - posted 08-16-2002 06:02 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
There were also dual versions shot of the Fox Grandeur film The Big Trail: the two versions had separate directors of photography (Arthur Edeson for the 70mm version, Lucien Andriot for the 35).

I Didn't know that. At least with 'Oklahoma!, the two aspect ratios were fairly similar, but Grandeur was 2:1, and I don't know what the 35mm version was, as this was before the 1.37 Academy aperture was standardised, it might even have been the early sound aperture, 1.1 something, similar to the 'Scope aperture. With this much difference between ratios, I doubt that you could simply shoot the sane action with two cameras side by side, you would probably have to stage it quite differently for the two wersions. I've only seen the 70mm one, as a 'Scope reduction print.

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Peter Kerchinsky
Master Film Handler

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From: Seattle, WA, USA
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 - posted 08-16-2002 06:42 PM      Profile for Peter Kerchinsky   Email Peter Kerchinsky   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A 70MM print of OKLAHOMA was shown at Seattle's Cinerama Theatre some years ago, before I moved up here 13 years ago. Not sure if it was the 30fps TODD-A-O print. The last I heard the Samuel Goldwyn Co., which used to own Landmark, was the distributor. I talked to someone in their LA office a few years back and she told me then the print still did exist. Whether or not it does now is anybody's guess.
I agree with what was posted earlier, the 70MM print had a much more spectacular opening and looks great on laserdisc.
DLP be damned, give us back our 70s.

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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

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From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
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 - posted 08-16-2002 06:57 PM      Profile for Claude S. Ayakawa   Author's Homepage   Email Claude S. Ayakawa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Peter,

As I and others had mentioned here, there was only one version of "OKLAHOMA" in Todd AO and it was the one filmed in 30fps. The one that was shot in 24fps was the 35mm CinemaScope version.

-Claude


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Bill Carter
Expert Film Handler

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From: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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 - posted 08-16-2002 07:26 PM      Profile for Bill Carter   Email Bill Carter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Heights Theater in Minneapolis booked the 70mm 30fps version, both last year and the year before.

Believe it or not, the 35mm and 70mm versions are treated as entirely seperate films, with the rights for each held by different companies. Samuel Goldwyn owns the 70mm/30fps rights.

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Los Angeles, California
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 - posted 08-19-2002 01:03 AM      Profile for Michael Coate   Email Michael Coate   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Aaron Sisemore wrote:
quote:
The last two titles I know of with the 'TODD-AO 35' credit were 'Flash Gordon'(1980) and 'Legend Of The Lone Ranger'(1981)

I'm aware of a couple other "Todd-AO 35" productions made *after* the two you mention: RAGTIME, CONAN THE BARBARIAN, and DUNE. I believe DUNE would be the last production filmed with the Todd-AO anamorphic lenses. I'm unaware of any productions beyond that, anyway.

And speaking of credits, not all of the "Todd-AO 35" productions have been appropriately billed on-screen and/or in advertising materials. Many of them, including LOGAN'S RUN, FLASH GORDON, and CONAN THE BARBARIAN, are misleadingly billed as 'Filmed in Todd-AO," giving some the false impression they may have been originated in the 65mm version of Todd-AO.

Aaron,
Having never seen THE LEGEND OF THE LONE RANGER I'll take your word for it, but many sources note that production was shot in Panavision.


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