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Author Topic: Help with projector choice
Peter Berrett
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-24-2002 07:37 AM      Profile for Peter Berrett   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Berrett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Brad

Your reply raises a couple of questions in my mind. I know these questions are relatively simple but I ask you to bear with me as I am a beginner.

1. What is filmguard? I have seen so many posts about this stuff but do not know what it is. Obviously it must protect film in some way but I don't know whether you paste it onto the film or its some kind of sticky tape that you attach to the film. Is it worth getting for home use?

2. Brad, you talk about rerecording the soundtrack in a hi fidelity format on super-8 using the two magnetic tracks available. If one was to purchase a second hand super-8 print of a film (eg What's up Doc) where would you get the high quality soundtrack to record onto the super-8 film? DVD? More importantly lets say that you had a film, a quality soundtrack source and the appropriate recording equipment - how would you get the soundtrack in sync with the images. Having a soundtrack out of sync with your picture is awful - almost as bad as dubbing.

3. Finally why does 16mm film have optical mono sound and not magnetic stereo like super-8? Would it be possible to buy a jar of some sort of magnetic resin and 'paste' a magnetic stereo soundtrack onto a 16mm film and the rerecord the soundtrack in digital on that?

Thanking you
Peter



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Peter Berrett
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-24-2002 07:58 AM      Profile for Peter Berrett   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Berrett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bernard

Thanks for the tips. yes indeed I do want to be professional in the way I handle films and would prefer to send film back to the distributor exactly as I received them. I shall have to hunt around at some local swap meets and see if I can pick up the equipment you mentioned.

Frankly if money was not an issue I'd be sorely tempted to become a projectionist. Its considerably less stressful than being an accountant (unless of course your projector starts to mash up that nice shiny new print you just got from the distributor).

For me there's always been a certain kind of magic associated with outdoor projection. Some of the nicest memories I have as a child are of being taken to the drive-in by my parents. Truly, when one projects the flickering image onto a surface in the outdoors it magically takes one to a different world but hey, I think I'm preaching to the converted methinks. I think there would also be a certain satisfaction on seeing the joy on children's faces as you project a film.

I think if there is one thing I'm glad about in being born in the late twentieth century, its that I got to see movies, something most of my ancestors never got to see. Hopefully my descendants will continue to enjoy this marvellous invention as I have.

cheers Peter


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-24-2002 02:46 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
1. FilmGuard is a cleaner/lubricant. When working with magnetic tracks, over time they will collect dirt and flake oxide, leaving you with a loss of high frequencies and dropouts in the track, which gets just a little worse every time you run the film. FilmGuard will prevent this from happening.

2. DVD, videotape, Laserdisc, just whatever has a good clean copy of the soundtrack can be your master source. Set up the projector to shine a picture of the same size as your tv set and put the two images side by side. Once you have played with things for a little bit you will know precisely when to hit the buttons. Then don't worry about lip sync, just sit back and verify that the two pictures have their camera change cut simultaneously. That makes it real easy to see if the projector is getting even one frame off. You would be amazed at how easy it is to maintain sync for 20 minute spurts. (Video transfers sometimes chop off frames at the end of a reel or the print will be missing frames at the ends of the reels for some odd reason, but it is easily covered up in redubbing.)

3. Yes there is magnetic sound capability for 16mm. I don't know of anyone with striping machines, and it would be not cost effective to do so. Plus you would end up with films you could never re-sell.


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Peter Berrett
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-26-2002 08:23 AM      Profile for Peter Berrett   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Berrett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

Brad suggested

quote:
Now if you're REALLY serious about wanting some incredible sound from Super 8mm, you can simply record the timecode signal onto the magnetic track 2. Then of course record a mono mix-down of the audio on track 1. This way you can output the signal into a dts player for full 6 channel digital sound WITH A BACKUP AUDIO SIGNAL!


Pardon me for asking Brad but do you know anyone who has actually done the above? I hunted around the Internet but could not find any mention of anyone actually having done it.

Also have you heard the results of such an overdub? If so what was your impression of the sound quality. It seems to me that one could do such an overdub on a popular film like 'Grease' and then invite one's friends around for a film night but not tell that you've fiddled with the sound. They'll be expecting some tinny sound, maybe stereo but if one has carefully hidden speakers and subwoofers around the room they'll literally be blown away by the sound quality if it is as good as you say.

You weren't kidding us were you?

cheers Peter


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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-26-2002 09:37 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Possible problem with Brad's DTS idea: Grease isn't available in DTS, as far as I know. The 1998 reissue prints are SRD only.

I've seen 16mm DTS prints (we got one at a festival, but couldn't run it); the optical track contains timecode and is very distinctive. It's a great concept for special-venue use, but not useful for general releases, unless the DTS unit is shipped around with the print and disks.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-26-2002 10:02 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The 1998 release of Grease WAS in dts Scott. I am completely positive of this.

Peter, yes I have re-recorded many tracks for myself and others. The result is impressive. I have never gone the way of the dts, but after speaking with Karen several months back, she agreed there was no reason why it would not work. That is all that is done with 16mm dts prints anyway. The timecode "noise" is just recorded on the optical track.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-26-2002 10:25 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Never mind, Brad's right (of course). I recently handled one of these prints and it didn't come with disks, which is why I thought it was SRD only.

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Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 08-26-2002 04:53 PM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

Pailaird made an excellent Bolex magnetic/optical projector with quality stereo sound, and optional 'scope lenses for both the projector and Bolex H-16 cameras. (Bolex was taken over by Eumig.)
They were mostly used by advanced amateur filmmakers. Another European favorite featured four-reel interlock, permitting the playing of full-coat or striped magnetic film on the left side, and image film on the right. (Can't remember mfr's name, though.)

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-26-2002 06:54 PM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The double band 16mm projector I think you are talking about Gerard, is the SIEMANS. Three claw movement with variable speed control from just a few frames to about 40 frames. Extremely popular with domestic users for the many sound dubbing features incorporated!

One of the very best 16mm double band projectors that I worked on was the BAUER, with an intermittent movement! Partly seen nearest in the picture with a vertical xenon lamphouse. Playback only, it could be interlocked with other follower heads for rock ‘n roll dubbing. Projectionist Ken Wells. ITN News (cica 1980). On the other side of the room there were two other theatres equipped the same.




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