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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Poor Projection Standards in L.A. (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Poor Projection Standards in L.A.
Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-05-2002 12:00 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't doubt that the _average_ motion-picture presentation in 2002 is significantly better than the _average_ theatrical presentation in, say the 1950s or 1960s (what I would guess would be the "golden years" of showmanship). In the "good old days" the "average" theatre would have had a smallish screen, mono sound (except for maybe the rare 4-track mag print), uncomfortable seats, and a dim and/or flickering picture (depending on how cheap the management would have been with carbon usage). Lab work varies greatly in older prints; some are beautiful (particularly IB Tech prints), and some are just godawful. And while the big-city theatres would have been run by (mostly) experienced union operators, surely the small-town booths would have been run by those with limited experience and probably little or no interest in presentation quality.

Today, the "average" theatre has a fairly large screen, digital sound (or at least Dolby Stereo), higher-quality lenses, prints in (generally) good condition from not having to be rewound repeatedly on those horrible Goldberg enclosed rewinds, and more consistant lab work. And, with platters and automation, there is relatively little to go wrong once a show is threaded properly and the timer is set.

What we are missing today, sadly, is the experience that could have been had in the best theatres in the '50s and '60s. We're missing the BIG theatres (1500 seats! 60-foot screens!), 70mm prints, IB Tech prints, 6-track and 4-track mag stereo that would have been many times better than the average home audio system of the time, and, of course, there would have been a much higher degree of showmanship than is common today: curtains instead of slides, tastefully decorated theatre buildings, no TV commercials before the film, etc., etc.

What upsets me about the current state of the exhibition industry is that it is being run with the goal of short-term profits at the expense of long-term viability. I genuinely believe that a theatre which spends a bit more than usual on presentation and forgoes the revenue generated by blatant commercial advertising will be more likely to be successful over the long term than the "anything for a buck" chain theatres that are all too common today.


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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 11-05-2002 12:20 PM      Profile for Bill Gabel   Email Bill Gabel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Also remember less prints were struck for each release. You had a few hundred or less. Compared to the 1000 to 3000 print runs of today.
So those prints had to work their way from the Big first run houses
all the way down to the sub run houses. So everyone got a hand in running those prints.

During that time the Locals still used a Seniority number system for the jobs. So depending on how long you have been with the Local, you got a Seniority number. The lower the number the better chance to get
a good job at bidding time. The better jobs around that time where
Hollywood Blvd., Westwood, and that was the last great time for Beverly Hills. Around that time of the early 70's, United Artists
locked out the projectionists. That was the last time the Egyptian Theatre ran well till it reopened resently. So some of the operators
at those theatres in the LA Times letter. May have been there a long
time. So if a theatre on Hollywood Blvd. came on the bid sheet.
And it got 5 bids. And one of the bids came from a projectionist that
only worked drive-ins for the last 20 years and had a seniority number of 2. And the rest of the bids were from operators with seniority numbers of say 7, 8, 10 etc, etc. And they worked nice
walk-ins. The job would go to the projectionist with the number 2.
So sometimes seniority clause in the contracts, backfired. The best
theatres got the oldest operators with all the new equipment to work
with. During that time at Local 150, alot of the old timers. Worked
the big single screen houses, drive-ins. They were afraid of the
automation equipment, they just wanted to keep making change-overs.


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-05-2002 04:26 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Matrixed Dolby Stereo can pan sounds. I have personally mixed sound in Dolby Pro-Logic (same thing) that panned a single sound effortlessly center to left, left to right, right to surround, all while other sounds were happening. Sure, it's not as cool as digital, but it can be done. Personally I think that panned dialog is not done due to home video. The movie will live most of its life and make most of its money on DVD, not at the theater. So when panned dialog haapens at home, the dialog goes waaaaay beyond the screen and can even be more unsettling, since people do not put their left and right speakers on top of or directly below the TV.


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Lionel Fouillen
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Belgium
Registered: Nov 2002


 - posted 11-05-2002 04:46 PM      Profile for Lionel Fouillen   Email Lionel Fouillen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sure you can, but you don't have free scope with panning in Dolby Stereo as with discrete 3 or 5 channel. Did you ever get the problem where the sound sort of "doesn't know where to go" and slips from one channel to the other then quickly back to the former. As far as I know, the problem is known as "toddism" after a Dolby Labs engineer named Mr Todd who brought it to the fore. I think I've read about this in a Dolby white paper by Ioan Allen more than 10 years ago but I may be confusing. Correct me if I'm wrong...

And yes, the center dialog is indeed intended for proper home reproduction. Sheesh... spending money on movie technology then using it to format the film for home release. Ain't that sad?


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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 11-05-2002 05:23 PM      Profile for Paul Linfesty   Email Paul Linfesty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am sincerely apologizing for making it sound like I was attacking dialog panning in movies. As a non film-techie, I will humbly defer to all those who are.

Sorry.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-05-2002 05:29 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve,

I said "technical quality and presentation" in my post, not the actual story content. I don't know where you pulled that from, but that was not part of my comment.

Panned dialogue is indeed a wonderful thing, but only on scope movies. Flat movies should NEVER use panned dialogue, but then again no one should be shooting flat movies anyway. In the end, the big moneymaker is home video, so unless the filmmakers are willing to make 2 mixes, you can pretty much kiss that one goodbye.

I will agree that the filmmakers did more with what they had back then and that is certainly to be commended. I have had enough bad cgi to last me the rest of my life. However if you are going to use that argument, then how about these labs who have to crank out 8000 prints of Harry Potter and keep the quality up compared to only a couple hundred prints back then?

Getting back to my specific point though, it's the projectionists who I was specifically referring to. No way were prints ran for a year or more at the time with the equipment available to them then (yes, even including changeovers) and the prints were lab new at the end of the run. That's Josh's example of how the brain tends to forget the bad parts of the memories.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-06-2002 02:18 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think that perhaps by "lab new" they probably meant "no splices added".

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