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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Author
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Topic: grounds for dissmissal
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David Stambaugh
Film God
Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 12-17-2002 04:13 PM
I'm in an ![[evil]](graemlins/evil.gif) mood today.
Thomas said: quote:
It's difficult to take disciplinary action against someone who scratches a print when you're not really paying them enough to care. Why is someone going to take the time to set up the film cleaner, or double-check the film path, or even sweep and mop the floor when they can "better" spend that time sitting at the re-wind bench with fast food spread over it reading a book? If they get fired, they can move right along to the next minimum-wage job down the road.
A slacker employee with that attitude probably SHOULD be fired. If they've been assigned those responsibilities and they aren't doing the job, why would you keep them? And why would you reward someone like that with better pay, when they've clearly demonstrated that they will only do the minimum they can get away with?
Gerard said: quote:
How does this relate to the scarcely trained kids running multiplexes
for long hours at pitiful wages without pensions or welfare provisions?
The key is, as you point out, many of these people are "kids". Probably in school. The low-level theater job is obviously not intended to be a long-term career. But you seem to be saying they should be paid a "living wage". In Eugene, that's been determined by the City of Eugene to be $11.50/hr with benefits, or $14.50/hr without benefits (round numbers). Are you advocating paying part-time ushers, concessionists, and yes, booth workers, a "living wage"? What will that do to ticket prices, and if ticket prices rise, what will that do to movie attendance? Don't forget that you would also have to raise the salaries of management by the same proportion.
Manny said: quote:
And I'd like to add that the de-professionalization of projection has contributed immensely to the growth of home-video. Many of my friends contend that they have stopped going to the movies because they can get a better presentation at home with less hassle.
Manny, are these friends who complain about poor presentation also fellow theater workers? I have never heard anyone in the general public complain about a presentation issue at any movie theater. Sticky floors, long lines, high prices, Yes. Presentation, No. To 99% of moviegoers, if there's picture and sound, the presentation is fine. I argue with my friends that Theater A here has better presentation than Theater B, but Theater B has stadium seating, so that's where they want to go. Presentation is a non-issue as long as there's nothing grossly wrong (it pains me to say that). I really don't think the de-professionalization of projection has much to do with the popularity of home video.
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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"
Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 12-17-2002 05:04 PM
Nope. These are customers. Some of them are friends (it's a small island) but some are also complete strangers.
David, I agree that those are probably the most common annoyances but, as the booth operations person, those aren't the ones that get forwarded to my attention.
Something I should explain: From the mid-1970s until about 1994 we did not have first-run theatres in The Bahamas. The sub-run cinema we had was very large and had a relatively tiny screen and mono sound. As a result, by the early 1990s the high-end home-video market gained a reasonably strong foothold here in Nassau.
I should also add that I only hear serious complaints. Nobody ever goes to the trouble of calling/writing to report a minor problem and they definitely do not bother to comment if they thought a presentation was good.
Something else: These customers that I hear from tend to be unforgiving. If they have one bad experience, they will stay away for a long time...and so might their friends and family.
With an amazing uniformity, it always comes down to this argument:
"I have a DVD player and a 50" TV with Dolby Surround. I can stay home. It doesn't take long for these movies to come out on video. I can wait, you know."
Once, a not-so-savvy customer added:
"...and I'll have the letterboxed version. You think we don't notice but we know y'all don't get the letterboxed version for every movie."
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Barry Martin
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 203
From: Newington, CT USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 12-17-2002 05:21 PM
A few flaws to point out:
"What Mr. Martin failed to mention was that while the McDonalds *HIRES* at a higher starting wage thier bonuses, and increases are quite poor in comparison to this theatre,
This particular theatre in question offers concession commission to the floor staff, A $0.50 raise after "cross training" and another $0.25 raise after six months. Also very soon they will be offering a health plan to the floor staff employees. Not to mention the free movies and other perks of working in a theatre.
most floor staff employees at that location make between 9-10 an hour.
McDonalds does not offer an incentive program like the theatre. There raise structure is a lot less, and AFAIK they do not offer any health benefits."
Perfect example of not researching your information before shooting down someone else's opinion. A former theater employee is now working for that particular McDonald's and gets medical, dental, vision and all the "perks" the theater offered (tuition assistance, and bonuses) with the exception of free movies.
My original post referred to a starting rate comparison from a year ago. McDonald's rate was $8.25/hour and this theater was $7.75. McDonald's had the same "raise" structure as the theater, giving a 5% increase after 30 days and every year thereafter. The only place this theater might outpay the fast food was bonuses, but you have to work concession to get those bonuses. Projectionists, supervisors (for the most part) and about 80% of the staff do not share in those concession profits unless they are fortunate enough to be put in the stand. Even those that did get into concession regularly were not making more than $30-40/week extra with the exception of the two "regulars" who have done concession for over a decade and never have to work anything but concession.
As for the health plan, I'll believe it when I see it. This theater has a tendancy of making promises to keep people longer and then just "forgetting" to follow up. Such instances include the concession item discount for employees, which has been promised since 1998. The giving of gift certificates on days when the theater performs especially well, a great idea promised at a staff meeting before the last GM left.
As for making $9-10/hour I am willing to agree that some make this after being certified for kitchen work and other special training. My point in the paying of exhibition workers has always been what do they get paid on Sundays? Christmas? Thanksgiving? New Years? The same they always get paid, and they are REQUIRED to work those days. Why is it any different to stand over a popcorn bin scooping for 8 hours (I wish my shifts had been that short) than it is standing in front of a register taking money?
Around here people can find other jobs. There are Now Hiring signs just about everywhere. However, a lot of people work in projection because they love it and just want to get paid fairly and somewhat to the degree as everyone else. Would you be happy about having to leave management all of a sudden because every theater in the area has started paying management $12-15,000/year just because Corporate isn't making enough to pay their executives $150-750,000/year? You'd be outraged and have to leave because you have people to support. So they put an ad out, and they hire someone who isn't half the manager you were and the theater goes to Hell in a handbasket. Now, can you do anything but laugh?
I can agree that two operators are not even necessary for a 20 screen, as I have done it alone. But it takes a lot of work for that crew to be able to run it properly with only one person. At my theater we had double coverage on BOTH shifts Sunday-Saturday with extra people on for print work on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. After we hammered out all the problems and got eachother properly trained we cut the hours required to work that booth cut in HALF. Nobody got a piece of that savings, except maybe Corporate.
Moral of the story: When it comes to business you get what you pay for. As far as I can tell from what everyone says here the exhibition industry has been paying for ![[bs]](graemlins/bs.gif) for quite some time.
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Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 12-17-2002 07:56 PM
True, most customers may not complain about or talk about what was *exactly* wrong with the presentation, but they know. There was an 8-screen UA near Royal Palm Beach that had consistently bad presentation. Base scratches, platter scratches, bad splices (out of frame), and they showed most stuff at 2:1.
There was another UA-8 in West Palm Beach, about 15-20 minutes from Royal Palm Beach. This one had much better presentation, side-masking, and their prints were always clean. People would go out of their way to patronize this one instead of the other, closer one. There was no stadium seating or other flashy amenities, but they knew something was better about it.
My friends and I went out of our way to see the Star Wars Trilogy and Titanic at the theater with better presentation. And that was back when we didn't know theaters ran 35mm!! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
=TMP=
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Barry Martin
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 203
From: Newington, CT USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 12-18-2002 07:02 AM
Apology accepted and appreciated, I don't mind being told I'm wrong, I just prefer facts to back them up instead of opinions.
"Thats my point if it is something that you want to do bad enough then you will make sacrifices."
I can definitely agree with that, and use our theater as an example. I took a pay cut by applying there but I had two good friends who suggested I come over and I have always loved movies. I cannot agree that one should make sacrifices which will effect the quality of life he/she is able to provide their family. An $8/hour job would pay more than enough if I wasn't living in my own apartment, starting a family, and trying to get some money put aside. The only time I even complained about wages was when I found out people were getting paid twice as much as I was with benefits to boot to run half as many screens. Sure, screen number doesn't always dictate amount of work but we both know in many of these booths the 20 was the hardest to man alone.
"You seem to pick on executives a lot and I believe that is unfair. They have earned thier positions and deserve to be compensated on it. I do not think it is right to put anyone down on thier success."
I completely agree that I pick on executives a lot. Most of them deserve it (note the MOST, meaning not all). I have had some GREAT experiences with corporate executives and some really poor ones. When I see a company mistreating it's staff based on policies handed down by executives, I blame them. Then of course there are all these problems with corporate scandal recently, such as Enron and the like.
In our example, I was asked to take a $5,000/year pay cut because my employer was bankrupt while at the same time executives petitioned the bankruptcy court to allow them millions of dollars to be paid in bonuses equal of up to 70% of their annual salaries topping out at one million/year. In a recent study (dying to remember the name of the organization, will insert it when I find it) it was shown that, on average, corporate executives make 70 times their employees in America! This increase has been worstened by the recent practice of giving executives "stock options" which often allow them to profit when a company goes bankrupt. If you worked your life and excelled then by all means you deserve to be paid more than anyone else. Certainly when the success of a company depends on your day to day decisions you deserve to be paid very well. But there is no excuse for making 70 times your employees' rate, only to allow the company to go bankrupt through poor management (in our industry, over-building), and then beg for more money. I know of executives who have refused bonuses and increases when their companies have performed poorly. That's leadership deserving of praise.
"It bothers me to see people that are so focused on money that they lose sight of whats important, Bieng Happy."
I hate to break it to you but money is a very large part of happiness these days. Money buys food, pays doctor and utility bills, buys a house, christmas presents, birthday presents, clothes. I'm not advocating that any employee should be paid enough to buy their own Ferrari or vacation home, but being able to afford to live on your own, a "living wage", is what every employer should strive for. Not because some minimum wage law REQUIRES them to, but because they want the best and happiest people to work for them longer than 6 months, resulting in their customers being so impressed they forget the name of the other chains around.
Just my humble opinion, now what has this got to do with dismissal again? ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Darren Crimmins
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 130
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 12-20-2002 10:18 PM
I 100% agree with Gerard's point of view in favor of workers rights. Just because a majority of floorstaff/projectionists are teenagers nowadays that have no overhead, does not mean that theaters should feel that they can pay minimum wage to these people and be justified in doing so. Still, as long as theater employees keep accepting the low wages nothing will change. It takes people to reject the crappy wage, thus only getting subpar people to work for that low wage for them to realize thier mistakes. There are reasons why unions are around, and they are still needed today. That is why I have no sympathy for managers to complain when employees 'slack off' or don't take thier job 'seriously'. They are not getting paid enough to do so. Good pay=good employees. Bad pay=bad employees.
While I love what I do, that reason in not enough to accept being taken advantage of financially. The sooner you realize corporate is sticking it to you, the harder it is to still enjoy doing your job. I learned this the hard way and got out and moved to a theater which would pay decently. As long as I am being taken care of by corporate, I have no problem working hard for them. It is difficult to be happy when you are continuously worrying about the money and benefits issues, no matter how much you like your job.
Just my 2 cents thrown in by a fellow projectionist
Now stepping of of the soap box ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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