my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Dozens killed in Rhode Island nightclub fire (Page 2)

This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4

Author Topic: Dozens killed in Rhode Island nightclub fire Barry Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 203 From: Newington, CT USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 02-22-2003 09:17 AM                        Paul, from my understanding of the news broadcasts there are such laws in place in Rhode Island and in the town of West Warwick. The issue at hand seems to be that they did not even TRY to obtain a permit (probably knowing they would be turned down). I know if I planned a show like that with those effects some sort of license would be required, and I'm not even in that business. Common sense. I think the band probably knew they wouldn't get approved for a permit (speculation yes, but just a feeling) and went on with their foolish display to put on a "great" concert. Other issues at hand is the occupancy of the club. Many think (by looking at the news footage) that the 300 person capacity was greatly exceeded, which would be a problem for the owners. I think the fire should rest completely on the band, by the testimonials of other clubs Great White has played at lately (Bangor, ME and New Jersey) it seems this was statis quo for them, with the exception of the tragedy. If the occupancy allowance was ignored, then the club shrares in at least some of the blame.  |  IP: Logged Arthur Allen Film Handler Posts: 99 From: Renton, WA, USA Registered: Aug 2001 posted 02-22-2003 10:37 AM                        Looked like a washed up 80's band trying to cram their arena show into a nightclub. ----------------------- "You didn't know that rock n' roll burned so you bought a candle and you loved and you learned" --Great White, "Once Bitten"  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 02-22-2003 10:42 AM                    Don't worry; no matter what happens Jack Russell will still have that damned dog named after him.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-22-2003 12:21 PM                     Barry, your understanding is correct. According to the news I read today, the building did not have a city permit to use pyros, and State law requires a special license for detonating pyrotechnics. The West Warwick Town Council would also have to sign off on any local establishment's application for the license. The band's attorney said the musicians had "verbal permission" to set off the pyros, and the band's manager had made sure the use of pyros was approved. A Councilor said that using use pyrotechnics in a building like that, bad judgment would be an understatement. He also said it's an old wooden building with low ceilings. There is also a possibility the building's capacity of 300 was exceeded. The number of the victims and survivers (200 injured with an additional 96 that lost their lives) seem to point to that possibility. According to the news, a criminal probe into the nightclub fire has begun. Bobby, your assessment will probably come to pass.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-22-2003 12:54 PM                        This is very sad and--obviously--was a completely preventable situation. The videotape of the fire is extremely scary, as most of us have never experienced a serious building fire and would not have expected the flames to spread so quickly. It sounds like it would be very difficult to find fault with the venue, unless it was over capacity (possible) or had agreed to allow the use of pyro in the show (unlikely). Supposedly, they had working EXIT signs, fire extinguishers, and had passed a recent fire inspection. If anything, the fire codes may have been deficient, as they didn't require sprinklers in that building. Also, does anyone know why we need fire curtains, minimum aisle widths, and all sorts of other important safety devices in theatres, but this type of venue doesn't? Whoever decided to set off the pyro devices in that venue (especially without the proper permits/licenses and apparently without permission from the venue) must have the worst judgment in the world and absolutely deserves to be "sued into oblivion" and, hopefully, sent to prison, too. Hopefully this will help to effect positive changes in safety requirements for public buildings.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-22-2003 01:02 PM                     I got caught in a middle of an oil fire once aboard ship. How fast things "go up" will supprise you. Somehow, I managed to escape. I was lucky.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 02-22-2003 02:36 PM                        This appears to be what happened in the Morro Castle fire of September 1934. The incident has been largely forgotten about now, presumably because the ship didn't sink. There was also speculation that large quantities of alcohol on board (this was during prohibition, when the liner was used to run 'booze cruises' to Cuba) contributed to the ferocity of the fire.  |  IP: Logged Michael Gonzalez Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 790 From: Grand Island , NE USA Registered: Sep 2000 posted 02-22-2003 07:25 PM                     You know that tragedies like this tend to happen in threes. I'd be a little leery going to a club sometime in the near future. Just be sure that you always know where the emergency exits are.  |  IP: Logged Joe Beres Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 606 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-22-2003 07:44 PM                     Michael, Here is a far less tragic, potential third. Last Monday, a club in Minneapolis went ablaze when a band set off "pytotechnics" during their set opening for Link Wray. Unlike, the incident in Rhode Island, no one was hurt here, The incident is otherwise strikingly similar. Here is a story in the local paper. If you look to the right of the linked page, there are links to the original stories from Monday and Tuesday.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 02-22-2003 07:48 PM                        The local newspaper did a story on this today as it relates to venues in Eugene. The fire marshall was quoted as saying something like "We can prohibit plate warmers at the County Fair, but we can't prohibit pyrotechnics in nightclubs". Clubs and other live venues are required to have permits though. He also said all nightclubs, bars with live stage music, etc. can expect a visit from the fire marshall in the very near future.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 02-22-2003 07:56 PM                    Re how safe was the venue: How safe can it be if their sound absorbing material on the walls was so flammable? If not the pyro it could have been easily touched off by a cigarette. It doesn't sound very safe to me. Is the material used on the walls of recording studios this dangerous?  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-26-2003 06:11 AM                        Paul's picture is not of the pyro, but of the walls massively aflame like torches. The pyros were just sparklers. If the video rolls on TV again, you can see the sparklers, then the wall blazing like a torch (Paul's photo), then the ceiling aflame. In seconds! I agree with Steve Kraus that the wall & ceiling materials probably weren't rated for that application. The club will be liable. The club did not have a pyrotechnics license, & had been told that it would have been useless to apply because of its structure. Other bands that played the club are now coming forth & saying that they employed pyrotechnics at the club & the operators did not object. The club was easily a deathtrap to begin with. Easily there were too many in there. I saw a plan of the club with the "3 exits" & stage marked; the main entrance was at an L from the stage. That's where everybody tried to exit & died. The "other two" exits were on the wall opposite the stage (like the back of the house), BEHIND THE BAR. That had BETTER be a code violation in Whoopsocket, Rhode Island. Socially, everybody is programmed not to go behind a counter where there's a cash register. Apparently most of the band & some others got out an exit backstage. Regardless of the band's actions, the owners/operators of the bar had complete disregard for patron safety.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-26-2003 09:01 AM                     Some of the best accoustic absorbers are highly flamable Sonex sheets which is an excellent device goes up like a torch  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 02-26-2003 10:59 AM                        Can someone explain the logic behind "grandfathering" older buildings so sprinklers aren't required? It seems like common sense that a place like a nightclub should have sprinklers. If the owners can't afford to put them in, they shouldn't be allowed to operate, period.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-26-2003 11:35 AM                     David, I have to somewhat agree with you. Unfortunately, that'll never happen. Some of the sprinkler systems are so high-tech it would probably cost more to install them than what the building is actually worth. There are two theatres I know of (that I have worked at) where the room used for the sprinkler system's control looks like a pump room transfer station. Why they have to be so complicated - I don't know. But they are. Initial pressurization of those systems is done in a start-up procedure, and if the procedure is violated, damage to the system could be severe. I pressurized one some time ago, man!!!! I received a "Butt Chewing" session I'll never forget! Luckly, I followed the start-up procedures, so all was cool there. But the initial problem was that "I was not qualified or authorized to to pressurize that system." Basically, a person working in the auditorium busted a sprinkler head, and water was shooting all over the place. So, I shut down the entire system, replaced the busted head, and re-pressurized the system according to equipment operating procedures. Would I do it again? Certainly, if I thought any people were in danger of a fire. I would rather have those people wet as a duck than fried like a steak. Other than that, I would leave it alone. William, by looking at that picture again, I still don't know what it was. However, given the size and intensity of the flames, I seriously doubt that a single large capacity hand held fire extinguisher could have put it out. It looks like it got too big of a foothold.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.