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Topic: Place names in the UK

Christopher Seo
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 530
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-17-2003 09:03 AM

Michael,

I assume the German people did not take Kennedy to be a delusional fellow who identified as a jelly donut, but didn't he in fact pronounce "Berliner" as if that were the case?

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 03-17-2003 11:34 AM

Thanks for clearing up the Isle of Wight issue. About the only other thing I could tell you about it is that brilliant Churchill quote: 'If pisswilly little buggers like him [Ramsay MacDonald] had been responsible for building the empire, we might just have colonised the Isle of Wight by now!'

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-17-2003 12:08 PM

There are plenty of towns and villages here in the US. When I lived in Oklahoma, I was in the Town of Fort Gibson. We had a board of trustees instead of aldermen.

Places in the US don't just go about naming themselves willy-nilly. However, most Americans are lazy enough to just call everything a city, particularly if you're from a large metropolitan area. There's a set of legal requirements and a procedure in every state to become a "city".

Here's a brief description of the process of incorporating a city in Missouri, from a class assignment at the UM-C School of Law:

quote:

Incorporation in Missouri

Any unincorporated area may incorporate as a city, town, or village in the following manner. A number of voters = 15% of those voting from the area in question in the last gubernatorial election must present a petition to the county governing body seeking incorporation and describing the area to be incorporated by metes and bounds and via plat. The petition must state the approximate population of the area in question and the assessed valuation of the property within the area. The petition must also "state facts showing that the proposed city shall have the ability to furnish normal municipal services within a reasonable time after its incorporation is to become effective," and ask for the question to be submitted to the voters.

If the county governing body is satisfied that the petition contains sufficient signatures, it shall submit the question to the voters of the area proposed to be incorporated. RSMo. § 72.080(1). If a majority of voters within the area approve, the county governing body shall declare the area incorporated. RSMo. § 72.080(2). If the county in question is a charter county, and there are already 50 or more incorporated areas within the county, incorporation requires compliance with a boundary commission process. RSMo. § 72.080(3).

Prior to the election, however, if the owners of the majority of the land classified commercial or agricultural within the proposed area object, they may sue in Circuit Court for a declaratory judgment. Their petition must "state facts showing that such consolidation including the real property owned by the petitioners is not reasonable and is not necessary to the proper development of the city or town." If the court agrees, it can enter an order requiring those seeking incorporation to resubmit their petition excluding the land of those objecting to the incorporation. RSMo. § 72.080(4).

Other than via the boundary commission in charter counties, no town or village may incorporate within two miles of an incorporated city/town/village within the same county, unless the requisite 15% of the voters first petition the incorporated city/town/village to annex them. If this annexation request is denied or not acted upon within one year, then the petition may proceed and incorporation is possible under the procedures specified in RSMo. § 72.080. RSMo. § 72.130.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 03-17-2003 12:12 PM

quote:
even teeny places in the US refer to themselves as 'cities'

What Adam said. Legalities aside, I think most people here call larger places here "cities", and rural burgs "towns".

But, I'm glad to have the mystery of UK place names cleared up. I'd wondered about that for years. Thanks.

Are there actually many towns and cities with the same names, which makes stating the county name necessary to differentiate them, or is it just common practice?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-17-2003 12:58 PM

Geographical Definitions in the United States:

http://www.sph.umich.edu/geomed/htmls/glossary/census.html

http://www.census.gov/dmd/www/glossary/glossary_a.html

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Aaron Mehocic
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 804
From: New Castle, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-17-2003 01:21 PM

This is a little off subject, but I read recently that in terms of settlement patterns, English colonists from northern England settled New England, those from middle England settled Pennsylvania and Maryland, and those from southern England found their way to Virginia and the Carolinas.

Just some trivia.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 03-17-2003 02:19 PM

There was quite a nice piece in today's Telegraph, in which residents of Bagdad, Arizona, were interviewed about their thoughts on the forthcoming war...

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 03-18-2003 06:37 PM

Remember to mention, that when the queen once dies, and a king takes over the British throne, several London-theatres will have to alter their names, being named after the actual regent.
True, isn't it ?

And BTW, what You British and Americans refers to as "danish", comes out of danish baker shop as "wienerbroed" = "Wiener-Bread".

In Denmark, the most used word for a normal beer is "en bajer" - "a bavarian" - after Bayern, a German part-state; a strong beer-sort of ours is the "Dortmunder", after a big german city. After entering the European Union, danish breweries may have to alter these names, but the wienerbread has not yet been claimed illegal !! [beer]

Per

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 03-19-2003 02:23 AM

There have been several Euro-rows over the use of place names as a generic name for a product, e.g. Champagne and sparkling wine, Budweiser and lager (there is actually a brewery is Ceske Budjewice producing something called Budweiser, which was sued by the American giant), Cheddar as cheese and so on and so forth.

As for the Queen, if she makes it as far as her mother did, London's theatres have another 30 years or so to go before they need to worry about that problem!

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-19-2003 06:46 AM

Budweiser was, and still is, originally brewed in the now Czech republic. The US Budweiser was given or bought permission to use the name way way back in 18something. It's easy enough now to distinguish the two products, the proper Czech stuff is Budweiser Budvar and tastes nice, the US stuff is just Budweiser and is pretty yuck in comparison. Mind you it's highyl likely that the stuff sold as Budweiser here isn't made in the US.

Read all about Budvar here

and Budweiser here

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 03-19-2003 07:46 AM

And to clear up the matter of the different names, it has to be understood that the part of Czekhia called Bohemia was inhabited by Czekhs and Germans who coexisted peacefully for centuries.
Some cities, like Prague, had large German and Czekh populations. Afer WW2 and the communist revolution, all Germans had to leave Bohemia.
The name "Budweiser" is the German, "Budvar" the Czekh variation.

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-19-2003 04:36 PM

Thanks Michael, I thought you might have some 'insider' knwledge [Wink]

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Dick Vaughan
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1032
From: Bradford, West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 03-20-2003 04:33 PM

Aaron
English place names used in the US and Canada are not so regionalised as you infer. I currently live near Yeadon in West Yorkshire ,I believe there is a place named after it in Pennsylvania.
35 miles away to the south is Sheffield , South Yorkshire (as in Alabama) and 70 miles further SW is Birmingham(also as in Alabama).
Bradford ,where I work , has many towns named after it including one an hours drive north of Toronto.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 03-20-2003 05:57 PM

Isn`t there also a small town on the American east coast named after York?

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Hugh McCullough
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 147
From: Old Coulsdon, Surrey, UK
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 03-20-2003 06:28 PM

The correct title is not Kingston-on-Thames, Surrey, but Kingston-upon-Thames, Surrey.
Kingstonions get quite up tight if the word 'on' is used instead of 'upon'.
For an English town to become a City it has to have the title
'City' bestowed on it by the Crown.

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