my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » What is a bandsaw print? (Page 2)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Author Topic: What is a bandsaw print? Jason Burroughs Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 654 From: Allen, TX Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-03-2003 04:21 PM                     No, because just like Pigvomit, i'm not that interesting, no one would want to!  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-03-2003 07:43 PM                     John, your analogy is pretty weak. Collectors who get films after their video release and run them privately to their families or perhaps an occasional friend in their own home are doing no one any harm at all. In fact, they have proven over history to be performing a service on many occasions where the studio lost their negatives and all copies and the film would have been lost forever if it had not been for collectors. The studios should be worried about all of the video piracy going on. Collectors are not the threat. This isn't rocket science here. I am surprised to see such a closed minded attitude from you on this. You have been around long enough to know that the only real threat from a print existing outside of studio control post-video is unauthorized (and unpaid) repertory screenings, of which in today's world a theater could set up a portable DLP projector and show a DVD or HD tape and the general audience wouldn't care. As far as feeling uneasy about someone looking at a picture of my family, did I just publicly release pictures to video stores where the whole world can look at those pictures? Need I continue? This entire topic boils down to a matter of quality. How would you like it if you were told you could no longer get movies on DVD because the quality was too high, but you could freely continue to collect VHS copies? Now upgrade that a notch to 35mm film vs. DVDs. It's the same damn thing.  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 04-03-2003 07:53 PM                  I agree that analogy is really lame. While in most places it is illegal to go through someone's trash, the fact remains if you discard, throw away anything, you lose all ownership rights. It now becomes a "finders-keepers" issue. While I would not suggest illegally displaying copy-righted material, it is an interesting dilemma not only with films, but with tapes, books, etc… I ALWAYS shred all my sensitive information before I put it in the trash. >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Bob Maar (Maar stands for Maartini) Posts: 28608 From: New York City & Newport, RI Registered: Feb 2001 posted 04-03-2003 08:30 PM                        Phil......Is that why, I feel so cut up? He Haw!!!  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 04-03-2003 08:32 PM                  Bob, Even though you talk a lot of trash, I would NEVER put you there.. in the can so to speak! You're my friend! >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Thomas Procyk Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1842 From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-04-2003 01:27 AM                     I thought there was a Supreme Court ruling a while back regarding going through people's trash. I believe the police found something incriminating in an individual's refuse, and that individual claimed that it was his trash, and his private property. Since the cans were at the street for pickup, they became "public domain", or so the court ruled. I will look for the exact case if I can find it... I go through people's trash sometimes. Especially during move-out week here in the college town. Bank statements, photos, tax forms... none of that interests me. Lava lamps, textbooks, VCRs and stereo equipment? HELL YEAH! Going trash digging reminds me of just how wasteful our pathetic little society really is. Ain't it great to be alive and able to consume? =TMP=  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-04-2003 09:23 AM                        In most cases, prints (even "bandsaw" ones) need help "falling off the back of a truck". If money or favors are exchanged to obtain scrapped prints, it's not likely innocent "finders keepers" or "dumpster diving", but rather a case of stolen goods.  |  IP: Logged Don E. Nelson Expert Film Handler Posts: 138 From: Brentwood, CA, USA Registered: Nov 2001 posted 04-04-2003 10:09 AM                     I would like to commend John on his opinion and the stand he has taken on this subject. He works "IN" the industry and is not an outsider, which may bias his opinions but his ideas are just as valid as mine, and I appreciate this forum as a place wher we can all "agree to disagree". It is not my intention to prove him wrong on an issue, or to prove that I am right, I am only looking for an intelligent discussion. Our freedom of speech in the country is something we should never take lightly, right now there is a Freedom war raging over this very subject. Thanks again John, .....just as there are two sides to every door, there are two sides to every discusiion.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-04-2003 10:20 AM                        Don --- Thank you. I know from personal experience that any prints returned to my department at Kodak for evaluation MUST be returned to the distributor, or certified as DESTROYED. The distributors are very protective of their property, even if it is to be scrapped.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-04-2003 04:21 PM                     I knew you would say that John. If the studios wouldn't make 20 gazillion prints of each movie and then junk 19 gazillion of them 4 weeks after their release, having to pay for "certified destruction" wouldn't be the issue that it is. This will never change though, because in general Hollywood only knows how to make crappy movies and the studios know if they don't get their money back the first weekend that word will spread and the project will be a loss. Case in point is today's release of "What a Girl Flaunts". Still though, I maintain that these film collectors out there are not doing anyone any harm. The purpose of certified destruction is to keep prints out of pirate's hands before the video release date. I'll bet if someone pulled out a calculator that they would find the cost of paying for this kind of destruction vs. holding onto the prints in secured depots until the video release is a foolish move.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-04-2003 10:24 PM                        What I have never understood is why the studios perceive a difference between private home use of 35mm or 16mm film and private home use of DVD or videotape. It seems to me that the end result of both is the same (people watch the movie at home) and the only difference is the format. If piracy were the primary concern, then DVD/videotape should scare the studios more, as those formats can be easily copied using readily-available equipment. If the studios would simply sell of their old prints at reasonable prices to private collectors who agree that the prints will be used "for home use only" (or something to that effect), everyone would benefit. The collectors would get legitimate prints and the studios would get some extra cash, rather than having to pay for their prints to be bandsawed or shredded/recycled. Further, there would be a paper trail to allow tracking of suspected violations. Obviously, this wouldn't happen until after the video release of any given title. I should emphasize here that I absolutely do not condone piracy and I believe strongly in the right of a copyright holder to control the distribution of his copyright work (during the term of copyright protection). I've had the pleasure of meeting a number of film collectors and none (that I know) would disagree with this point of view. They simply enjoy watching their favorite films in a high-quality, long-lasting format. Many of them are happy to loan out their prints for studio-approved screenings (with license fees paid) and provide material for restoration and preservation purposes (often because such material was carelessly junked by former "owners.")  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-07-2003 09:03 AM                        Certainly distributors have the option of selling used prints to collectors. But they also have the option of prosecuting those that deal in prints that "fell off the truck". It's their property.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-07-2003 01:40 PM                     John, you have now made the same comment (reworded) 4 times on this one thread. There comes a point when it just becomes annoying and rude. In this case especially since you are insinuating that anyone who has a film is a criminal.  |  IP: Logged Don E. Nelson Expert Film Handler Posts: 138 From: Brentwood, CA, USA Registered: Nov 2001 posted 04-07-2003 02:22 PM                     I have never been impressed with the quality control of pirated copies of anything, in any format..... be it video tapes, vinyl records, CD's, DVD's, cassettes, etc. The high volume pirates are not collectors, they are not into film/video/audio exhibition of the highest quality, they are not perfectionists that tweak the record levels to get the best signal to the viewer/listener, they are primarily trying to make a "fast buck" off some ones elses legal property. Show me one pirate that owns a time base corrector or even knows what it does. Pirates could only sell an original print/master copy once, and that is why that dont, there is no big money in it for them . I agree with John, that they, the pirates, should be arrested and prosecuted, because they are breaking the copyright law. Now the collectors I know personally are the opposite of the pirates, in every respect. I have known many collectors in every multimedia format for the last 30 years and they all complain about the industries lack of attention to (detail) quality. They,... like me, seek out : Real time mastered CD,s, (costs more) the direct to disk vinyl recordings, (harder to find, limited selection) the real time mastered video tapes, (limited release) 16mm and 35 mm LP, technicolor, etc. high quality prints, (sold from one collector to another). To call these collectors pirates is absurd. They have a passion for the media and are not driven by making lots of money from an inferior poorly copied product. Another pet pieve of mine,!!!???why doesn''t the studios make available to the public for rent or purchase the edited versions of all the movies that they sell to the Major Airlines. Sure makes sense to me, there is a BIG market out there for films edited for language and R rated imagery.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-07-2003 11:19 PM                     Don, The studios have a legitimate interest in exercising their own creative control, and if they don't wish to promulgate editted versions of their film, that's certainly their right (as it is their right to promulgate those editted versions only in select markets). I think it's about pride and respect for art, and I do understand and agree with that decision. It may seem inconsistent to turn around and show those editted versions on airplanes and over television, but that's beacuse those business interests are able to offer sufficient financial inducement. I don't think you're going to find a large lobby of consumers who can make the same business case for wanting editted films. --jhawk p.s.: I think the pirates with TBCs are the same ones who have telecines.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.