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Author Topic: Power Failure? Christopher Seo Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 530 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-15-2003 02:11 PM                     quote: 300 megawatts of power were traveling east on the Lake Erie loop and suddenly reversed direction Paul, here's a really naive question: isn't AC already reversing direction 120 times per second? Having grown up in Hawaii, I recall more than one blackout... I think Oahu has perhaps two major power plants. I think I'd survive in a world without electricity... probably take up homesteading.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 08-15-2003 02:28 PM                     Christopher, I think they were trying to say to the effect that the 300 megawatt source traveling east was over powered by a 500 megawatt source coming from the west. Kinda of like having a 300 megawatt source on one end of the line and then at the same time, apply 500 megawatt source on the other end without disconnection the orginal 300 megawatt source first. That would make some neat fireworks! I'll bet somewhere there was one helluva arc-off in a switching circuit somewhere. Some think it might have been a switching failure or human error or maybe violations of standard operating procedures.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 08-15-2003 03:04 PM                        quote: Kinda of like having a 300 megawatt source on one end of the line and then at the same time, apply 500 megawatt source on the other end without disconnection the orginal 300 megawatt source first Isn't that done now? How else can multiple generation sources add to the grid at one time. ... unless they weren't synched up... ?????  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 08-15-2003 03:23 PM                     Yeah... If the line was in sync and the potential was the same, there probably would not have been a problem whether or not the switch disconnected one source. I think where the problem came to be is there was quite a different potential involved. Maybe there was an out-of phase condition there, too. Maybe a regulator failure which could have allowed a significant undesireable voltage condition between the east feed and the west feed. Could be a Higher voltage line fell on a lower voltage line. I know things will really get screwy if a 7,200 volt service line breaks free and falls on your 240 volt household feed line. It was perplexing enough to the officials that they still don't know what actually happened or what caused it. The power grid is extremely complicated. Much more than I can comprehend.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 08-15-2003 03:24 PM                        Chris, The Honolulu Advertiser reported this morning that the kind of blackout that had occurred in the northeastern United States and Canada is very unlikely to happen on Oahu with our two power plants. There could be isolated outage but not island wide. The entire northern island of Kauai in the state however could however experience a total blackout because they do not have a power system like Honolulu's. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Charles Everett Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: New Jersey Registered: May 2001 posted 08-15-2003 03:49 PM                     Rachel, you are not alone. My brother on Long Island had his birthday yesterday and I was going to call him last night -- but the Island was caught in the blackout and he's probably still without power. New Jersey has done OK. PSE&G reports 5,000 people still out; the utility said on its website that some of this is due to normal incidents (squirrel meets transformer). To help people get home last night Gov. McGreevey lifted tolls on the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway. NYC is hit-and-miss. Parts of the city have power; the subways are still closed; a USA-Puerto Rico basketball game (Olympics qualifier) at Madison Square Garden was postponed. Ontario is the worst off. The power grid has warned of rolling blackouts through the weekend; CIBC, one of Canada's biggest banks, had to evacuate its home office; the Canadian National Exposition will not open until Monday. And of course, the blackout means theaters are closed! NYC and Toronto will be hit hard as they're the biggest moviegoing towns in the US and Canada.  |  IP: Logged Gerard S. Cohen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 975 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 08-15-2003 07:45 PM                     In NYC some 800 rescues of people trapped in elevators were made by the Fire Department and thousands of people walked down from high-rise buildings, including tourists atop the 86th floor observation deck of the Empire State Building. Additional thousands were led out of subway trains stalled between stations via steel ladders rising five stories to the sidewalk level. Those trapped under the East River were led along the tracks to the nearest exit. Much of Ontario is still blacked out. As for TV broadcasting, just as happened when the Twin Towers went down, broadcast channels Fox 5, PBS 13, 17, 25, 26, 27, 35, 39, 41, 47, 53, and 68 show "No Signal" or a completely distorted image in the NYC area. [ 08-16-2003, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Gerard S. Cohen ]  |  IP: Logged Rick Long Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 759 From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Registered: Nov 1999 posted 08-15-2003 11:40 PM                     My lights came back on at 10:12 P.M. Friday night. I was working as a projectionist in Trenton Ontario, during the last great blackout (1965). Trenton is an air-force town and had its own emergency generating system. Shortly before 7 P.M. the non/sync record player began to shift speed up and down (above and below normal r.p.m.) This worried me as I knew at the time that the line frequency was drifting. It soon locked in, however, and the show carried on as normal. It rather pissed me off when I found out that I was the only one of 30 projectionists in Local 432, I.A.T.S.E. that did NOT get the night off due to a power failure. Power in other, bigger Ontario towns, failed completely. Re; the reports of price-jacking at gas stations, this was later discovered (or at least claimed) to be the result of the electronic gas price signs resetting themselves to 0.99. Prices at stations I passed tonight, on the way to the only neighbourhood store with cold beer, were normal. We sat out in the backyard, talking with friends and neigbours to cool off after dark. Although there were minor "crimes of opportunity", in some cities, no major looting occured. As others have already stated, I am afraid that politicians may put this one "under study" -read: on the back burner till everyone forgets about it. Had this somehow been part of a terrorist scheme, it shows how under-prepared we would have been.  |  IP: Logged Charles Everett Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: New Jersey Registered: May 2001 posted 08-16-2003 10:16 AM                     NYC got all its power back last night and all the subways are running as of this morning. Long Island is all but fully back. Somehow I de-emphasized Cleveland and Detroit among the areas that got hit hard. Cleveland ran out of water -- the National Guard had to truck in drinkable H2O. Detroit had to have water and gasoline trucked in from western Michigan -- gas stations ran out of gas! Ontario has been the hardest hit: Gas stations ran out of gas and some areas still have rolling blackouts. Not to mention a total FUBAR by the provincial and federal governments. The Globe and Mail and Toronto Star websites have plenty of stories about all this. At least the Beer Store in Ontario was packed with people carrying cases of cold brew. Blackout cheer, eh?  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-16-2003 11:45 AM                     Toronto's subway system will not be restarted until Monday morning (maybe) The CNE which was to open (Canadian National Exobition) has had its opening delayed until Mondya and all shopping malls and major power users are order to stay down until monday at the earliest My power came on sat monring at 446am and then went on and off several times Friday on 3 theatres in toronto were open that i know of About an hour after the blackout a major transformer farm in Burlington Ontario caught fire due to a loss of cooling and we have been advised that major rolling blackouts will continue for about 2 weeks  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 08-16-2003 02:36 PM                        OK, Gordon, tell us: are you behind all this?  |  IP: Logged Gerard S. Cohen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 975 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 08-16-2003 06:55 PM                     Blackout Investigation Blend of Plane Crash Probe, Lab Experiment "NEW YORK, 6:15 p.m. EDT August 16, 2003 - Teams of engineers, mathematicians and computer specialists have started to comb through hundreds of millions of pieces of data in an effort to reconstruct the largest blackout in U.S. history." What engineers really meant during those Blackout 2003 interviews: Engineer says: A number of different approaches are being tried. Engineer means: We are still grasping at straws. Engineer says: We're working on a fresh approach to the problem. Engineer means: We just hired three kids fresh out of university. Engineer says: Close project co-ordination. Engineer means: We know who to blame. Engineer says: Major technological breakthrough. Engineer means: It works OK, but looks very hi-tech. Engineer says: Customer satisfaction upon delivery is assured. Engineer means: We are so far behind schedule that the customer is happy to get it delivered. Engineer says: Preliminary operational tests were inconclusive. Engineer means: The darn thing blew up when we threw the switch. Engineer says: Test results were extremely gratifying. Engineer means: We are so surprised that the stupid thing works. Engineer says: The entire concept will have to be abandoned. Engineer means: The only person who understood the thing quit. Engineer says: It is in process. Engineer means: It is so wrapped up in red tape that the situation is hopeless. Engineer says: We'll look into it. Engineer means: Forget it! We have enough problems for now. Engineer says: Please read and initial. Engineer means: Let's spread the responsibility for the mistake. Engineer says: Give us the benefit of your thoughts. Engineer means: We'll listen to what you say as long as it doesn't interfere with what we've already done. Engineer says: Give us your interpretation. Engineer means: I can't wait to hear this! Engineer says: See me/Let's Discuss. Engineer means: Come into my office, I'm lonely. Engineer says: All new! Engineer means: Parts not interchangeable with the previous design. Engineer says: Rugged. Engineer means: Too heavy to lift! Engineer says: Lightweight. Engineer means: Lighter than rugged. Engineer says: Years of development. Engineer means: One finally worked. Engineer says: Energy saving. Engineer means: Achieved when the power switch is off. Engineer says: Low maintenance. Engineer means: Impossible to fix if broken  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 08-17-2003 05:45 PM                     Now you know why I have a 31.5KVA 3-phase emergency Diesel generator. I have to keep my beer cold when Puget Power can't keep their shit on line. Anyway, the power outage didn't effect us. Most of our outages are due to high winds that blow tree limbs onto the lines. Another cause is if some dilrod decides to plow their car into a power pole and knock it over. We usually don't have too many thunder storms, but when we do I am ready to light off my generator. The power grid in Puget Sound is not designed to handle lightening strikes like the mid-west is. According to the news, the cause of the cascade failure was due to failure of 3 345 KVA lines in Ohio. They are still at loss as to why the three power line failures caused such a huge cascade in the Lake Erie loop.  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 08-18-2003 08:30 AM                     I got my power back around 1pm on Friday. I had a few friends crash at my apartment on Thursday night. We drank a few bottles of wine and listened and watched news reports on TV. (Battery powered TV) I had gone to the bank 2 hours earlier and I had cash with me. A few people at work got home about 4-5 hours later, they live in Brooklyn and New Jersey. Here in the city it was like one big block party. [ 08-18-2003, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Bill Gabel ]  |  IP: Logged Charles Everett Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: New Jersey Registered: May 2001 posted 08-18-2003 05:27 PM                     Somehow we all made it through the Monday after the blackout. Detroit just lifted a "boil water" order that affected almost all of Southeast Michigan. Ottawa was blacked out yet Gatineau (across the river in Quebec) still had the lights on. According to the CBC, Quebec has its power grid on AC but sends power out of province via DC. In a strange coincidence, the heavily-hyped arthouse flick American Splendor opened in a "Blackout Triangle" (Toronto, NYC, Cleveland). The only outlet to point this out was Variety. Even with that American Splendor opened with a big average.  |  IP: Logged

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