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Topic: "Boss's" ????

Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-28-2003 10:21 AM

The problem is that in different grades in school, I was taught different rules concerning the apostophe at the ends of words or names ending in "s". The fact that different teachers and different textbooks used different rules leads me to believe that there are disagreements among "professionals" concerning correct usage in these cases.

Another issue here is that "My Boss's Daughter" is the official movie title, whether it uses "'s" correctly or not. Putting "My Boss' Daughter" on your marquee is like putting "Boys in the Hood" on your marquee for "Boyz N the Hood". "My Boss's Daughter" and "Boyz N the Hood" are the correct spellings of those movie titles, whether they reflect correct English or not.

If I write a book or make a movie called "Trie Knot To Ever Split Infinitive's" then that becomes the correct spelling of the book or movie title, whether it uses correct English or not. "Froot Loops" is the correct way to spell a certain brand of cereal, although "Froot" is not the correct way to spell "Fruit".

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-28-2003 11:17 AM

quote:
To me, "boss's" looks like "bosseses."

Boss's -- "bosses"
Bosses -- "bosses"
Bosses' -- "bosses"
Bosses's -- "bosseses"

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 08-28-2003 02:49 PM

quote:
Boss's -- "bosses"

Um, no... If either boss' or boss's is acceptable, then that means boss' is pronounced bosses. Then what? The "s" at the end of boss's is silent? And optional?

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-28-2003 03:11 PM

From Harbrace College Handbook Ninth edition: 1984 printing

quote:

(1) For singular nouns and indefinite pronouns, add the apostrophe and s.

Laura's idea
anyone's guess
a week's work

Option: If a singular noun ends in s, add the apostrophe and s or only the apostrophe.

Keats's poetry or Keats' poetry
a waitress's tips or a waitress' tips

When a singular word ends in s, many writers use the apostrophe and s to reflect pronunciation, but they prefer to use only the apostrophe when the word following begins with an s or z sound.

Chris's enthusiam but Chris' zeal
the hostess's idea but for the hostess' sake

(This is a usage rule I'd never seen).

So from the way it's worded in that manual, the rule is to always add "'s" and just using the apostrophe by itself at the end of a word ending in s is an option.

The usage guide at the end of Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 11th edition favors using just the apostrophe at the end of words like waitress or boss (boss'), while always using "'s" at the end of names ending in s. (Chris's).

It just shows that there is no single authority on this issue, and that our language is a bit flexible. When I get home, I'll check the usage guide in the front of my reprint of the 1828 Webster's Dictionary to see what it says on this matter.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-28-2003 05:08 PM

There's a grocery store chain out here called Albertson's.

They recently changed all their signs to say "Albertsons."

The official corporate reason was: "It looks better."

(I'd bet a hundred dollars that somewhere there is an Albertson's memo that says "It look's better.")

One of my own personal pet peeves is daycare centers that have misspelled words in their names, like "Kidz Korner Preskool." Great example of spelling for the little rugrats.

I got into a fight with a "professional" advertising guy a couple of years ago...I was on the committee for a tourism brochure for our area. There was a sentence in it that said: "The Matthew Quigley Rifle Match is considered to be the largest shoot of it's type in the world." I argued for half an hour that the apostrophe did not belong there. I finally had to fax the guy a dictionary entry and a style manual page to prove my point. The brochure got changed.

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 08-28-2003 08:59 PM

The same sort of observation and argument has gone on for years here over the name of Caesars Palace. They've heard all the grammatical explanations but they ain't changin'. [Big Grin]

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-28-2003 11:31 PM

How about a new one: "bossi", kind of like the plural of catcus, catci. A cataclismic explosion of bosses: bossinova!

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Franklin Armstrong
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 106
From: Orlando, FL, USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 08-29-2003 02:13 PM

www.movies.yahoo.com
www.movies.go.com
www.fandango.com

Have it as " My Boss's Daughter "

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-29-2003 02:43 PM

quote:
Um, no... If either boss' or boss's is acceptable, then that means boss' is pronounced bosses. Then what? The "s" at the end of boss's is silent? And optional?

If we are saying that both boss' and boss's are acceptable forms and have identical meanings then both should be pronounced the same way, \bossiz\.

Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary : tenth edition. (c)1997. ISBN 0-87779-708-0.
A Handbook of Style: Punctuation:
' Apostrophe:
"1. Indicates the possessive case of nouns and indefinite pronouns. The possessive case of almost all singular nouns may be formed by adding 's. Traditionally, however, only the apostrophe is added when the s would not be pronounced in normal speech. [emphasis added] The possessive case of plural nouns ending in s or in an \s\ or \z\ sound is generally formed by adding an apostrophe only; the possessive of irregular plurals is formed by adding 's."

My interpretation of the bold sentence above and

quote:
3:9 For some common nouns as well, a regard for euphony sets aside the rule for forming the possessive by adding an apostrophe and s, and instead adds only an apostrophe:

and

quote:
15c. The apostrophe with -s is used to form the possessive of singular nouns ending in -s, if the resultant form is not unpleasant or difficult to pronounce.

is that the apostrophe only is used when the \iz\ or \ez\ sound is already present and adding another one would sound strange, like bosses's \bossiziz\. Bosses' \bossiz\ sounds better. So, for boss, I would add the 's because, ordinarily, I would pronounce boss' as \boss\ and boss's as \bossiz\.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 08-29-2003 03:03 PM

quote:
If I write a book or make a movie called "Trie Knot To Ever Split Infinitive's

...then don't think about collaborating with William Shatner (to boldly go...)! [Wink]

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 08-29-2003 04:35 PM

There's an auto repair shop here whose signage for years has said "The Auto Pro's". They recently moved to a new location, with new signage reading "The Auto Pros". I wonder how hard the sign company had to fight with them over that one. [Wink]

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-30-2003 12:06 AM

I noticed that the usage section on the apostrophe had been changed slightly from the 10th edition to the 11th (at least in format).

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